August 1998 - XEmacs-Beta - XEmacs Mailing List Archives

Re: 20.1-b51 crash on Solaris 26 years, 1 month

SL Baur

I keep hoping this bug, which has been reported hundreds if not thousands of times since I've been XEmacs maintainer, will go away. It's a combination of Sun+Sparcworks and the EOS debugger stuffs. Maybe someday, someone will fix it. Raymond Toy <toy(a)rtp.ericsson.se> writes in xemacs-beta(a)xemacs.org: > FYI: Solaris 2.5.1, X11R6.3, gcc 2.7.2 > I was running with sparcworks on xemacs. I moved the scrollbar on one > of the source windows and got the following crash. > The lisp backtrace is: > scrollbar-line-up(#<window on "parake20.f" 0xc9e>) > # (condition-case ... . error) > # (catch top-level ...) > The C backtrace is below. > Ray > #0 0xeeff452c in kill () > #1 0x78f98 in fatal_error_signal (sig=11) at emacs.c:262 > #2 <signal handler called> > #3 0x12404c in add_margin_runes (dl=0x76e120, db=0x989bd0, start=19, count=1, > layout=GL_OUTSIDE_MARGIN, side=2, window=540227584) at redisplay.c:2721

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ielm volunteer wanted 26 years, 1 month

SL Baur

I'm aware that ielm is broken right now. There were two broken patches posted to xemacs-patches that are advertised to fix it. Could someone please clean them up and resubmit to xemacs-patches. I've had this near the top of the TODO for some time now, but I'm not going to be able to get around to it. ftp://altair.xemacs.org/pub/xemacs-21.0/1423 ftp://altair.xemacs.org/pub/xemacs-21.0/1424 Thanks in advance.

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URGENT: Get in free to the Open Source Developer Day 26 years, 1 month

Martin Buchholz

O'Reilly is hosting the Open Source Developer Day in San Jose, CA, USA this Friday, Aug. 21, and XEmacs will have a presence there. This is your chance to hobnob with the personalities in the Free Software world, including Eric Raymond, Larry Wall, Brian Behlendorf, John Ousterhout, Richard Stallman, Michael Tiemann and many others. This conference would normally cost $295, but you can get in for FREE in exchange for volunteering to help staff the XEmacs table for part of the period from 12pm-5pm. The more people volunteer, the less work for everyone. There are currently two volunteers - myself and Ben Wing. I will be providing a computer running XEmacs. If you're interested, contact me or Ben as soon as possible. I mean, like, the next few hours. Contact information: Martin Buchholz 650-322-3649 martin(a)xemacs.org Ben Wing 415-643-4366 ben(a)xemacs.org Here are the relevant details from O'Reilly: http://opensource.oreilly.com/news/osdd_0698.html - osdd home page We need a volunteer with presentation development skills to create a sign for XEmacs at the demo. We are not allowed to hang signs off of the ceiling or the walls, and so the sign must either hang off of or be supported by the table. The remainder is ASCII extracted from the above mentioned web page. Open Source Developer Day August 21 at the Fairmont Hotel in San Jose, California Open Source Developer Day Partners Attend the Open Source Developer Day! Don't miss the Open Source Town Meeting from 5-6:30. Open source software is gaining ground! In March, Netscape announced it was making Communicator source code freely available; in April, O'Reilly hosted the Open Source Summit; and this week, IBM announced that it is adopting Apache for its e-commerce Web server. Join us in building the momentum--and learn the ropes of open source development. O'Reilly is sponsoring the first Open Source Developer Day on Friday, August 21 from 9:00am-5:00pm at the Fairmont Hotel in San Jose, California, immediately following the Perl Conference. Open Source Developer Day is designed to give you practical information about how open source software works in the real world. The event focuses on how successful open source software communities have developed, and the business models and licenses which people have created to support them. Agenda 9:00am-10:00am Keynote: Open Source Essential Concepts and Models -- Eric Raymond, author of The Cathedral and the Bazaar, independent developer and Open Source evangelist. 10:00am - 10:30am Break 10:30am - Noon Open Source Project Management & Logistics -- Open Source leaders who've created successful tools discuss how to get a large, disparate group of volunteer developers to work in tandem, coordinating version control, security, and bug fixes. PANELISTS: Larry Wall, O'Reilly & Associates and creator of Perl -- The Governing Bodies of Perl. Brian Behlendorf, C2Net Software and co-founder, Apache Group -- Apache and Collaborative Decision-Making. Jeremy Allison, SGI and co-creator of Samba -- Maintaining Quality on a Distributed Project. MODERATOR: Gina Blaber, Software Director, O'Reilly & Associates. Noon-1:30pm Lunch (on your own). 1:30pm-3:00pm Open Source Business Models -- Successful open source entrepreneurs and business leaders reveal how they've created profitable businesses while supporting open source communities -- including selling enhanced software, services, and books. PANELISTS: Bob Young, Red Hat Software -- The Free Software Distribution Model. James Barry, IBM -- Why Apache Makes Sense for IBM. John Ousterhout, Scriptics Corporation and creator of Tcl -- Free Software Needs Profit. Michael Tiemann, Cygnus Support co-founder -- Cygnus and Free Software MODERATOR: Tim O'Reilly, O'Reilly & Associates. 3:00pm-3:30pm Break 3:30pm-5:00pm Licensing and Legal Issues -- Open source leaders and legal experts address thorny questions and creative approaches that support the further development of open source software. PANELISTS: Richard Stallman, founder of the GNU project -- Copyleft and the GNU Public License. Jim Hamerley, Netscape Communications Corp. -- The Mozilla Public License and the Netscape Public License. Pamela Samuelson, University of California at Berkeley and Berkeley Center for Law and Technology -- Legal Perspectives on Free Software Licenses. MODERATOR: Mark Jacobsen, O'Reilly & Associates. Added Bonus The Open Source Town Meeting -- Attend the Open Source Town Meeting, starting at 5:00pm at the Fairmont, directly following the Open Source Developer Workshop. Admission to Open Source Developer Day is $195 through July 15, and for attendees of Perl Conference 2.0. After July 15, general admission is $295.

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Re: Macros: Scheme vs Common Lisp 26 years, 1 month

Michael Sperber

>>>>> "Craig" == Craig Lanning <CraigL(a)internetx.net> writes: Craig> At 10:01 AM 8/17/98 +0200, Michael Sperber [Mr. Preprocessor] wrote: >> This indeed shows the CONS example to be poor. The point remains the >> same, however: What if we bind a variable bound in a macro. Say, >> *features*? What if a temporary identifier in a macro definition >> shadows a binding in a use? Craig> I think I see what you're driving at, but I'm not sure that it's as Craig> important as it's being made out to be. It's easy enough to use Craig> MAKE-SYMBOL to create safe variable names for the macro and still Craig> maintain readability. Sure, but there's no guarantee that a given macro has hygienic behavior. Generally, maintaining hygiene this way is pretty tedious, which is why programmers usually don't go to the necessary lengths. Also, a macro might refer to bindings whose names are free in the macro definition. There's no guarantee that you'll get the same bindings for a use that you referred to at the point of definition. Craig> It's also easy enough to expand (via MACROEXPAND) Craig> the macro to see what it will look like (Zmacs will let me do this with Craig> control-shift-M and meta-shift-M). This severely restricts the complexity of macros I can use safely. Also, the whole point of macros is syntactic abstraction. I don't want to have to expand it to see if it does something evil. >> In the examples, I don't *need* to use CONS, it just might happen to >> be a convenient name. Craig> Expanding the macro should tell you everything that you need to know. As I said, having to expand the macro is totally counterproductive. The great thing about Scheme macros is that I basically never have to do this. I certainly never have to do it in order to check hygiene. (Moreover, expanding the macros cannot tell two uninterned symbols with the same name apart, can it?) >> What I would also want is, that, if a macro is defined within a >> certain package, and I refer to bindings from the macro, that these >> bindings are relative to the package of definition rather than the >> package of use, obeying the standard rules of lexical scoping. Not >> having this (as in CL) introduces other dangers. Craig> I'm not sure what "bindings from the macro" you are referring to. Craig> All symbols in the macro definition are relative to the package of Craig> definition and not the package of use. I depend on this for my most Craig> common use of macros. Sorry, I should have been more specific. Here's an example not even involving explicit packages: Let's say I have this: (defvar bar 23) and I want to refer to bar (that is, the above binding) in a macro body: (defmacro foo () 'bar) ... but I do: (let ((bar 42)) (foo)) => 42 This violates lexical scoping. -- Cheers =8-} Chipsy Friede, Völkerverständigung und überhaupt blabla

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Re: [SCROLL] Grrr ! Grrr ! 26 years, 1 month

SL Baur

Didier Verna writes: > X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.24/XEmacs 21.2(beta1) - "Aeolus" Speaking of display glitches that should be corrected some day, here's one (of several) in the toolbar code. Toolbar buttons have three fields: glyph-list, function-to-call, and active-p. The only ways I've found so far of forcing toolbar button updates on conditional buttons is to either interactively call C-l (recenter), or to do (set-specifier default-toolbar (copy-specifier default-toolbar)) from Lisp. There's the function `force-mode-line-update'/`redraw-modeline', but it doesn't work with toolbars.:-(

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[minor BUG] package text-modes depends on apel 26 years, 1 month

Darryl Okahata

Minor bug: File "image-mode.el" in package "text-modes" depends on file "path-util.el" in package "apel". This is because image-mode.el uses `exec-installed-p', which is defined in path-util.el. The bug is that the dependency is not reflected in the dependencies for text-modes in package-get-base.el. If you rely upon the dependencies to install packages, you may get an error saying that `exec-installed-p' is undefined, when you try to display images (this is because the package installer didn't install "apel" when "text-modes" was installed). -- Darryl Okahata darrylo(a)sr.hp.com DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not constitute the support, opinion, or policy of Hewlett-Packard, or of the little green men that have been following him all day.

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Re: Suggested fixes for cperl-mode 26 years, 1 month

Jan Vroonhof

Ilya Zakharevich <ilya(a)math.ohio-state.edu> writes: > > +(defmacro cperl-set-conformant-backward-deletion (func) > > `cperl-set-electric-backspace'? Fine with me. > > > + `(if (not (boundp 'backward-delete-function)) > > + (cperl-define-key "\177" ,func) > > + ;; we do not clobber backspace on standard Emacs, why? > > Since standard eamcs is smart enough to map \177 to [backspace] if > window-mode. Unless 20.x standard emacsen do things different they map [backspace] to \177, using function-key-map, which is unfortunately exactly the wrong thing but needed by historical bagage. > Why do you do this `if' at run time? Because otherwise it would be a compile time if and I am in the habbit of worrying about .elc compatability and therefor I am used to writing runtime tests only. > > + (when cperl-backward-delete-function > > + (make-local-variable 'backward-delete-function) > > + (setq backward-delete-function cperl-backward-delete-function)) > > Why should this be local? Because it is the equivalent of a keybinding and that should only be done Jan P.S. I guess abbrev needs to be fixed in XEmacs too so that all this cperl-u

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Status of XEmacs under MS-Windows? 26 years, 1 month

Mike Scheidler

I'm sorry if this is kinda off-topic, but I need some advice. I know there was a flurry of work on an MS-Windows (NT?) port of XEmacs a couple of months ago, but I didn't have a need for it then. How times change... What is the status of this port? Is it fit for everyday use, or still considered experimental? How about subprocesses, etc. as compared to the Unix XEmacs? If it is fairly mature, what (if anything) would I likely miss most as compared to the Unix version? [Background: I'm being reassigned within the company, and have a choice between embedded software jobs working in a Unix environment and MS-Windows. If I had my druthers, there's no question that I'd stick with Unix, but all of our really cool, cutting edge embedded software is being developed in (and for) Windows. I have about a week to decide which direction I want to go.] Thanks for your help, -- Mike Scheidler INTERNET: c23mts(a)eng.delcoelect.com Corporate Software Technology Delphi Delco Electronics Systems PHONE: (765) 451-0319 Kokomo, IN 46904-9005 GMNET: 8-322-0319

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Re: Suggested fixes for cperl-mode 26 years, 1 month

Jan Vroonhof

Sorry for the partial message, I am regretting binding lisp-complete-symbol to C-c c big time. > > + (when cperl-backward-delete-function > > + (make-local-variable 'backward-delete-function) > > + (setq backward-delete-function cperl-backward-delete-function)) > > Why should this be local? Because it the equivalent of a keybinding and therefore should only be done in the cperl buffer. That's why it needs to be done in (cperl-mode) for each new buffer. Is something like this acceptible? jan

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Re: Suggested fixes for cperl-mode 26 years, 1 month

Jan Vroonhof

Ilya Zakharevich <ilya(a)math.ohio-state.edu> writes: > I had a long email exchange about 4 with some rude person (do not > remember the name). Since he refused to follow CPerl policy (that > XEmacs-specific customizations should be done via macros defined at > the start of the file - if possible), I could not incorporate his > patches. Would something like this be acceptible? The only changes below the portability sections are hooks for to call the macro. This is for 4. only diff -u /u/users/vroonhof/emacs/lisp/cperl-mode.el.4.5 /u/users/vroonhof/emacs/lisp/cperl-mode.el --- /u/users/vroonhof/emacs/lisp/cperl-mode.el.4.5 Tue Aug 18 16:50:13 1998 +++ /u/users/vroonhof/emacs/lisp/cperl-mode.el Tue Aug 18 16:50:13 1998 ＠＠ -800,6 +800,10 ＠＠ ;;; `constant-face' was backward. ;;; (`font-lock-other-type-face'): Done via `defface' too. +;;; After 4.5 +;;; (`cperl-set-conformant-backward-deletion'): Follow policy of the +;;; Emacs version + ;;; Code: ＠＠ -847,6 +851,7 ＠＠ (cperl-make-face (, arg) (, descr))) (or (boundp (quote (, arg))) ; We use unquoted variants too (defconst (, arg) (quote (, arg)) (, descr)))))))) + (require 'custom) (defun cperl-choose-color (&rest list) ＠＠ -1537,7 +1542,8 ＠＠ ;;; Portability stuff: -(defconst cperl-xemacs-p (string-match "XEmacs\\|Lucid" emacs-version)) +(defconst cperl-xemacs-p (or (featurep 'xemacs) + (string-match "XEmacs\\|Lucid" emacs-version))) (defmacro cperl-define-key (emacs-key definition &optional xemacs-key) (` (define-key cperl-mode-map ＠＠ -1551,6 +1557,16 ＠＠ (where-is-internal 'backward-delete-char-untabify))) "Character generated by key bound to delete-backward-char.") +(defvar cperl-backward-delete-function nil) + +(defmacro cperl-set-conformant-backward-deletion (func) + `(if (not (boundp 'backward-delete-function)) + (cperl-define-key "\177" ,func) + ;; we do not clobber backspace on standard Emacs, why? + (setq cperl-backward-delete-function ,func) + (define-key cperl-mode-map [backspace] ,func) + (setq cperl-del-back-ch 'backspace))) + (and (vectorp cperl-del-back-ch) (= (length cperl-del-back-ch) 1) (setq cperl-del-back-ch (aref cperl-del-back-ch 0))) ＠＠ -1681,7 +1697,7 ＠＠ [(control meta |)]) ;;(cperl-define-key "\M-q" 'cperl-fill-paragraph) ;;(cperl-define-key "\e;" 'cperl-indent-for-comment) - (cperl-define-key "\177" 'cperl-electric-backspace) + (cperl-set-conformant-backward-deletion 'cperl-electric-backspace) (cperl-define-key "\t" 'cperl-indent-command) ;; don't clobber the backspace binding: (cperl-define-key "\C-c\C-hF" 'cperl-info-on-command ＠＠ -2126,6 +2142,9 ＠＠ (make-local-variable 'vc-header-alist) (set 'vc-header-alist cperl-vc-header-alist) ; Avoid warning (make-local-variable 'font-lock-defaults) + (when cperl-backward-delete-function + (make-local-variable 'backward-delete-function) + (setq backward-delete-function cperl-backward-delete-function)) (setq font-lock-defaults (cond ((string< emacs-version "19.30")

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XEmacs-Beta August 1998