March 1999 - XEmacs-Beta - XEmacs Mailing List Archives

Re: Backspace direction reversion 25 years, 6 months

Michael Sperber

>>>>> "Martin" == Martin Buchholz <martin(a)xemacs.org> writes: Martin> Those apps are running naked in a terminal emulator with no inherent Martin> editing capability. It's the terminal emulator that has a legacy Martin> problem - there was no provision for forward deletion at all. Sure, all of Unix *is* a legacy problem. MS> You're talking about your users, but if we really care about them, we MS> should have a survey at least on xemacs-beta to find out. Martin> Obviously xemacs-beta folks opinion is important, but much less than Martin> usual when the question is making usability decisions for novices. Martin> Folks are too inclined to think of what works for THEM, instead of the Martin> new user. Absolutely. I was just trying to be politically correct. Martin> P.S. Oh, yeah, xedit on Unix (not VM/CMS) does things Steve's way. Martin> An editor I would rather not be associated with. MS> So, you would rather be associated with Windows and Notepad? :-) Martin> Yes. This disagreement is exactly the reason why we shouldn't get religious about the issue. -- Cheers =8-} Chipsy Friede, Völkerverständigung und überhaupt blabla

2 participants
1 comments

Re: Error in XEmacs initialization 25 years, 6 months

SL Baur

Guido Van Hoecke <Guido.Van_Hoecke(a)alcatel.be> writes in xemacs-beta(a)xemacs.org: > Andy Piper <andy(a)xemacs.org> writes: ... >> I don't see this. Always make sure you build new betas with 'make beta' >> rather than just plain 'make'. What happens if you do this? Urgh. `make beta' isn't supposed to be needed now with the slimmed down core. The fact that it makes a difference is a bug in XEmacs. > Yep, that brings me a lot further. Unfortunately, way down the > process, the build stops while it expects to find /bin/echo: > ... > /usr/local/src/XEMACS~1.65/lib-src/update-elc.sh: /bin/echo: not found This comes from a very dubious block of code: # fuckin' sysv, man... if [ "`uname -r | sed 's/[^0-9]*$[0-9]*$.*/\1/'`" -gt 4 ]; then echon() { /bin/echo $* '\c' } else echon() { echo -n $* } fi What does `uname -r' return on cygwin? The script appears to be mistaking you for a System V-oid system. Is there any system we currently support that requires that code?

4 participants
3 comments

Customize bug? 25 years, 6 months

John Whitley

[The following applies to XEmacs 21.0.66 under IRIX 6.5:] Using menu item Customize -> Faces... to bring up the *Customize Faces* buffer, then open the "Bold" face or any other face using a bold font, as in: > Bold: (sample) * > [State]: this face has not been changed with customize. > Bold text. > Attributes: * Foreground: (sample) > * Background: (sample) > * Size: > * Stipple: > * Font Family: > * Bold: off > * Italic: off > * Underline: off > * Strikethru: off > * Inverse Video: off The Attribute "Bold" is inactive and set to off, even though the face appears as bold. This face is being derived from the default, as there are no .emacs or resource settings explicitly specifying the bold face. The same lack of Customize properly indicating "boldness" seems to happen even with mode-specific faces that use make-face-bold to set the bold attribute for their faces. -- John

1 participants
0 comments

Re: [Various] Backspace direction reversion 25 years, 6 months

Raymond Toy

>>>>> "SL" == SL Baur <steve(a)xemacs.org> writes: SL> Raymond Toy <toy(a)rtp.ericsson.se> writes in xemacs-beta(a)xemacs.org: >> Add one more. SL> Is this a vote for changing the default of the Delete key to delete SL> forwards, or against? I'm getting confused on what's what. :-( >> The key above return, whatever it's labelled, should delete to the >> left. SL> The only way to guarantee this behavior is for both backspace and SL> delete to default to deleting backwards. That would satisfy me 99 and 44/100% of the time: In X on a Sun Type-5 (non-pc) keyboard, the key above return is labelled backspace, but the keysym (according to xev) is Delete. It deletes backward like I want. However, on the rare occasions where I'm doing something on a console, I think that key really is a backspace key (Ctrl-H). In this case I still want it to delete left. (Hmm, how do I get help now? Does F1 work?) However, I'm not going to be majorly upset if this changes. I know how to work around it. For new users, having the key above return delete left is the expected behavior. And anyone who says differently is not a new user. :-) Ray

2 participants
1 comments

Re: Error in XEmacs initialization 25 years, 6 months

Raymond Toy

>>>>> "SL" == SL Baur <steve(a)xemacs.org> writes: SL> Sigh. Does anyone else remember the legend of the silent echo in SL> Kernighan and Pike? Yes. One of my favorite books too! Taught me most of the fundamentals of Unix. And still incredibly useful. Ray

1 participants
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Re: [Various] Backspace direction reversion 25 years, 6 months

Raymond Toy

>>>>> "APA" == Adrian Aichner <aichner(a)ecf.teradyne.com> writes: APA> On my Dell Lattitude CPi, I don't have a Return key. But I do have a APA> Enter key. APA> The key above that is APA> | APA> \ APA> Now, should \ delete backwards? I don't think so. But that BackSpace key is also above the return (Enter) key. I didn't say which key above return! :-) So should I have said: the key somwhere above the return or Enter key whose function is usually used to correct typing mistakes by removing the character just typed should always remove the character just typed. There, how's that? (Probably still wrong). (My Gateway also the \ key just above Enter and I hate it.) Ray

1 participants
0 comments

Re: Frustration on new install 25 years, 6 months

Jan Vroonhof

Kyle Jones <kyle_jones(a)wonderworks.com> writes: > Get package-index.LATEST from the archive. It's in the same > directory where the packages live. According to this file, EFS > qruies xemacs-base, vm, and dired. EFS doesn't really require VM > to run, so just get xemacs-base and dired. And even dired is not needed. xemacs-base should be sufficient. I submitted a trivial patch a while ago so that efs could do without xemacs-base too[1]. However this probably still in the efs waiting-for-maintainer-time queue (I didn't check however). Jan Footnotes: [1] Currently it is a good idea to install xemacs-base anyway, as the automated package tools use xemacs-base location as THE location to put non-mule packages.

1 participants
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Re: Frustration on new install 25 years, 6 months

Jan Vroonhof

Erik Arneson <erik(a)mind.net> writes: > tarball? How am I supposed to know which other packages I need to > download just to get efs to work? Read README.Packages (Yes, the documentation changes over time. Installing from scratch is a good time to read it again). If you did read README.Packages, then could you please suggest what you found unclear? > Anyhow, on another note, I think this may have something to do with > Redhat 5.2 (this is a fresh install), but both 20.4 and 21.0.66 give me > this odd error when I move my mouse pointer over the toolbar: X Server problem on C&T chipsets. It is in the FAQ and/or PROBLEMS file somewhere. You need to switch to software cursors. Jan

1 participants
0 comments

Re: Backspace direction reversion 25 years, 6 months

SL Baur

Martin Buchholz <martin(a)xemacs.org> writes in xemacs-beta(a)xemacs.org: ... > But even with all those cultural mods, the Backspace and Delete keys > are approximately in the same spot where the original IBM 101 keyboard > designers put them, I made a completely off-topic and irrelevant post on this thread. If you mistook it otherwise, I apologize.

1 participants
0 comments

Re: Backspace direction reversion 25 years, 6 months

SL Baur

Martin Buchholz <martin(a)xemacs.org> writes in xemacs-beta(a)xemacs.org: ... > Both me and Steve initially used a Happy Hacking keyboard here in > Japan. The irony of the whole Happy Hacking debate is that neither of > us uses it on a daily basis any more. I'm using a Sun5 keyboard, and > Steve is using some Japanese IBM PC keyboard with a more or less > normal-looking key layout. `Normal'? `Normal'??? It's _not_ a normal keyboard for any canonical meaning of normal. The parens are shifted left to be above `8' and `9', `"' and `＠' are on the wrong keys, the square and curly braces are on the wrong keys. The key labeled `\' doesn't do anything. The key labeled `￥' generates `\', there is no `~' key, instead there's an overline key that generates `~'. The space bar is tiny and crowded by huge Kanji, Hiragana, and Muhenkan keys. It's offset enough from where my thumb usually sits that I'm constantly mistyping it. I used to be a touch typist. Maybe I will be again some day ...

2 participants
1 comments

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XEmacs-Beta March 1999