March 1999 - XEmacs-Beta - XEmacs Mailing List Archives

Re: Why Haven't XEmacs and GNU Emacs Merged? 25 years, 8 months

Hrvoje Niksic

XEmacs FAQ Maintainer <faq(a)xemacs.org> writes: > As a result from a posting in texinfo-bug, I had an email > conversation with rms, who was interested in what the FAQ said on > Emacs/XEmacs indifferences. Now I'd like to know whether the XEmacs > developers have anything against med using the term Emacs to denote > the version of emacs currently maintained by rms and others, XEmacs > about our version, and emacs when talking about emacs as a concept > or class of application. YES! The use of the word "Emacs" as applying exclusively to FSFmacs is being pushed by Stallman to assert his implementation as the rightful ("standard") one. Emacs is much older than either implementation, and has been used for things having to do with none. XEmacs sources use the generic "Emacs" frequently, such as "Emacs events" vs. "X events", etc. > I'd rather see that the FAQ stops using the term FSF Emacs - as rms > disapproves of this name. Stallman disapproves of XEmacs. Stallman hates what we do because he sees us as harming him. No amount of argumentation or goodwill will ever change that, and believe me, I tried! I suggest "GNU Emacs" as a neutral name. But Stallman disapproves of that name too (but only when *we* use it -- he uses it all the time.) How unusual. > While I used to think that the current split is a result of > technical discord, rms's view is that it's a matter of getting all > authors of XEmacs to sign the legal papers regarding the GPL. It's both, really. The crux of Stallman's argument is that XEmacs harms the GNU project because of competing with a GNU product [FSF Emacs], that competition being unfair because he can't use (most of) XEmacs code. Anyone with a grain of salt in his head can see through that -- if that were true, then Zsh would be "unfair competition" against Bash, and GNU should shun it. And the same for any free project that duplicates functionality provided by a GNU program. If took seriously, Stallman's logical argument would amount to "either you're with us or you're against us." And yet Stallman is not like that in other cases, so it's obvious that his reasons are of a more personal nature. > Even though it may be reasonable to maintain two emacs development > efforts, it'd still be worthwhile to get the legal papers signed, > wouldn't it? Yes. I've signed my papers in the interests of peace. I don't think I would do that today, given the chance.

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Xemacs Question. 25 years, 8 months

Saugata Guha

1) I am used to brief key strokes. Do you have an emulation package which emulates the brief keystrokes? By the way brief was a popular editor in the PC world. It got bought by borland at the end. 2) The macro language is LISP, are you planning to support JAVA in near future. I think more people are familiar with C than LISP, so making it c like will motivate more people to move to it. Thanks Saugata.

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Why Haven't XEmacs and GNU Emacs Merged? 25 years, 8 months

XEmacs FAQ Maintainer

As a result from a posting in texinfo-bug, I had an email conversation with rms, who was interested in what the FAQ said on Emacs/XEmacs indifferences. Now I'd like to know whether the XEmacs developers have anything against med using the term Emacs to denote the version of emacs currently maintained by rms and others, XEmacs about our version, and emacs when talking about emacs as a concept or class of application. I'd rather see that the FAQ stops using the term FSF Emacs - as rms disapproves of this name. While I used to think that the current split is a result of technical discord, rms's view is that it's a matter of getting all authors of XEmacs to sign the legal papers regarding the GPL. Even though it may be reasonable to maintain two emacs development efforts, it'd still be worthwhile to get the legal papers signed, wouldn't it? Those interested may look up this article: <199608292029.QAA01520(a)ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu> Dejanews message-id search: <URL:http://www.dejanews.com/forms/mid.shtml> -- Christian Nybø

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[OK] 21.2 "Clio" XEmacs Lucid (beta12) on i586-pc-linux 25 years, 8 months

Larry Ayers

Patched from beta-11; built and runs well. Is there reason to be concerned about the libncurses conflict shown in the error-messages below? > XEmacs Build Report as generated > by build-report-version 1.35 follows: > Contents of /usr/local/src/xemacs-21.2-b9/Installation: > (Output from most recent run of ./configure) uname -a: Linux liatris 2.2.2 #10 Thu Feb 25 06:23:18 CST 1999 i586 unknown ./configure '--prefix=/usr/local/xemacs-21.2' '--with-site-lisp' '--package-path=/usr/local/xemacs-beta/lib/xemacs/packages' '--gung-ho' '--with-xpm' '--with-tiff=no' '--with-dialogs=athena' '--error-checking=none' '--debug=no' '--without-toolbars' '--with-pop' XEmacs 21.2-b12 "Clio" configured for `i586-pc-linux'. Where should the build process find the source code? /usr/local/src/xemacs-21.2-b9 What installation prefix should install use? /usr/local/xemacs-21.2 What operating system and machine description files should XEmacs use? `s/linux.h' and `m/intel386.h' What compiler should XEmacs be built with? gcc -g -O3 -Wall -Wno-switch Should XEmacs use the GNU version of malloc? yes (Using Doug Lea's new malloc from the GNU C Library.) Should XEmacs use the relocating allocator for buffers? yes What window system should XEmacs use? x11 Where do we find X Windows header files? /usr/X11/include Where do we find X Windows libraries? /usr/X11/lib Compiling in support for XAUTH. Compiling in support for XPM images. Compiling in support for PNG image handling. Compiling in support for (builtin) GIF image handling. Compiling in support for JPEG image handling. Compiling in native sound support. Compiling in support for Berkeley DB. Compiling in support for GNU DBM. Compiling in support for ncurses. Compiling in support for GPM (General Purpose Mouse). Compiling in support for proper session-management. Using Lucid menubars. Using Lucid scrollbars. Using Athena dialog boxes. Compiling in DLL support. movemail will use "dot-locking" for locking mail spool files. Using POP for mail access. Using Lisp_Objects with minimal tagbits. Using indexed lrecord implementation. > Contents of /usr/local/src/xemacs-21.2-b9/beta.err > keeping lines matching > "^--\[\[\|\]\]$\|make\[\|error\|warn\|pure.*$space\|size$\|hides\b\|strange\|shadowings\|^Compilation\|not\s-+found" > and then deleting lines matching > "confl.*with.*auto-inlining\|/usr/local/src/xemacs-21\.2-b9/lisp/[^ ]+ hides " ld: warning: libncurses.so.4, needed by /usr/lib/libgpm.so, may conflict with libncurses.so.3.4 ld: warning: libncurses.so.4, needed by /usr/lib/libgpm.so, may conflict with libncurses.so.3.4 ld: warning: libncurses.so.4, needed by /usr/lib/libgpm.so, may conflict with libncurses.so.3.4 ld: warning: libncurses.so.4, needed by /usr/lib/libgpm.so, may conflict with libncurses.so.3.4 ld: warning: libncurses.so.4, needed by /usr/lib/libgpm.so, may conflict with libncurses.so.3.4 ld: warning: libncurses.so.4, needed by /usr/lib/libgpm.so, may conflict with libncurses.so.3.4 ld: warning: libncurses.so.4, needed by /usr/lib/libgpm.so, may conflict with libncurses.so.3.4 ld: warning: libncurses.so.4, needed by /usr/lib/libgpm.so, may conflict with libncurses.so.3.4 ld: warning: libncurses.so.4, needed by /usr/lib/libgpm.so, may conflict with libncurses.so.3.4 ld: warning: libncurses.so.4, needed by /usr/lib/libgpm.so, may conflict with libncurses.so.3.4 ld: warning: libncurses.so.4, needed by /usr/lib/libgpm.so, may conflict with libncurses.so.3.4 /usr/local/src/xemacs-21.2-b9/lib-src/etags.c:1849: warning: array subscript has type `char' /usr/local/src/xemacs-21.2-b9/lib-src/etags.c:1849: warning: array subscript has type `char' ld: warning: libncurses.so.4, needed by /usr/lib/libgpm.so, may conflict with libncurses.so.3.4 /usr/local/src/xemacs-21.2-b9/lib-src/etags.c:1849: warning: array subscript has type `char' /usr/local/src/xemacs-21.2-b9/lib-src/etags.c:1849: warning: array subscript has type `char' ld: warning: libncurses.so.4, needed by /usr/lib/libgpm.so, may conflict with libncurses.so.3.4 ld: warning: libncurses.so.4, needed by /usr/lib/libgpm.so, may conflict with libncurses.so.3.4 ld: warning: libncurses.so.4, needed by /usr/lib/libgpm.so, may conflict with libncurses.so.3.4 /usr/local/src/xemacs-21.2-b9/lib-src/ootags.c:1912: warning: array subscript has type `char' /usr/local/src/xemacs-21.2-b9/lib-src/ootags.c:1912: warning: array subscript has type `char' ld: warning: libncurses.so.4, needed by /usr/lib/libgpm.so, may conflict with libncurses.so.3.4 ../src/config.h:36: warning: `alloca' redefined /usr/include/alloca.h:39: warning: this is the location of the previous definition ld: warning: libncurses.so.4, needed by /usr/lib/libgpm.so, may conflict with libncurses.so.3.4 eval.c:2861: warning: `val' might be used uninitialized in this function eval.c:3127: warning: `val' might be used uninitialized in this function ld: warning: libncurses.so.4, needed by /usr/lib/libgpm.so, may conflict with libncurses.so.3.4 Purespace usage: 761720 of 1507600 (51% -- 728k wasted). XEmacs: Pure size adjusted, Don't Panic! I will restart the `make' make[1]: [xemacs] Error 1 (ignored) ld: warning: libncurses.so.4, needed by /usr/lib/libgpm.so, may conflict with libncurses.so.3.4 Purespace usage: 761720 of 761720 (100%). /usr/local/xemacs-21.2/lib/xemacs/site-lisp/expect hides /usr/local/xemacs-21.2/lib/xemacs/site-lisp/tiny/expect /usr/local/xemacs-21.2/lib/xemacs/site-lisp/tex-site hides /usr/local/xemacs-beta/lib/xemacs/packages/lisp/auctex/tex-site /usr/local/xemacs-21.2/lib/xemacs/site-lisp/pop3 hides /usr/local/xemacs-beta/lib/xemacs/packages/lisp/mail-lib/pop3 /usr/local/xemacs-21.2/lib/xemacs/site-lisp/mc-toplev hides /usr/local/xemacs-beta/lib/xemacs/packages/lisp/mailcrypt/mc-toplev /usr/local/xemacs-21.2/lib/xemacs/site-lisp/mc-remail hides /usr/local/xemacs-beta/lib/xemacs/packages/lisp/mailcrypt/mc-remail /usr/local/xemacs-21.2/lib/xemacs/site-lisp/mc-pgp hides /usr/local/xemacs-beta/lib/xemacs/packages/lisp/mailcrypt/mc-pgp /usr/local/xemacs-21.2/lib/xemacs/site-lisp/mailcrypt hides /usr/local/xemacs-beta/lib/xemacs/packages/lisp/mailcrypt/mailcrypt /usr/local/xemacs-21.2/lib/xemacs/site-lisp/htmlize hides /usr/local/xemacs-beta/lib/xemacs/packages/lisp/text-modes/htmlize /usr/local/xemacs-21.2/lib/xemacs/site-lisp/font hides /usr/local/src/xemacs-21.2-b9/lisp/font /usr/local/xemacs-21.2/lib/xemacs/site-lisp/tiny/alist hides /usr/local/src/xemacs-21.2-b9/lisp/alist 10 Emacs Lisp load-path shadowings were foundCleaning out of date .elcs in directory `lisp'...

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Addendum! 25 years, 8 months

Erik Arneson

Actually, it looks like it's a problem with the VM package. I ran xemacs -q and tried to start VM. Loading vm-window... Loading vm-window...done Loading vm-macro... Loading vm-macro...done Invalid function: (macro . #<compiled-function (&rest forms) "...(10)" [let ((vm-sbe-buffer (current-buffer))) unwind-protect progn forms (and (not (eq vm-sbe-buffer (current-buffer))) (buffer-name vm-sbe-buffer) (set-buffer vm-sbe-buffer))] 5>) So, I don't know what that is. I'm not really sure where to start looking. Is anybody else experiencing this, or have I done something to really mess up my XEmacs installation? -- # Erik Arneson erik(a)mind.net Network Engineer # # Infostructure http://www.mind.net/ (541) 488-1962 # # "My brain is my second favorite organ." -- Woody Allen #

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Problem with tm and vm packages. 25 years, 8 months

Erik Arneson

I'm not quite sure what I did wrong, but I just upgraded to XEmacs 21.2b12 and everything compiled and installed just fine. So I downloaded all of the new packages, including the new tm and vm packages, and every time I try to run VM (via M-x vm or the 'Mail' button), I get this error: Invalid function: (macro . #<compiled-function (&rest forms) "...(10)" [let ((vm-sbe-buffer (current-buffer))) unwind-protect progn forms (and (not (eq vm-sbe-buffer (current-buffer))) (buffer-name vm-sbe-buffer) (set-buffer vm-sbe-buffer))] 5>) And this error: (1) (warning/warning) Autoload error in: /usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/man/lisp/tm/auto-autoloads: Already loaded So, I guess I'm probably going to uninstall tm and just run it that way, but if there's something that the tm or vm maintainers need to look at, I figured I'd throw this out there. -- # Erik Arneson erik(a)mind.net Network Engineer # # Infostructure http://www.mind.net/ (541) 488-1962 # # "My brain is my second favorite organ." -- Woody Allen #

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vm 6.67 fails to load on NT 25 years, 8 months

Brent B. Powers

After installing the latest sumo (with vm 6.67), attempting to run vm on WinNT gives: Invalid function: (macro . #<compiled-function (&rest forms) "...(10)" [let ((vm-sbe-buffer (current-buffer))) unwind-protect progn forms (and (not (eq vm-sbe-buffer (current-buffer))) (buffer-name vm-sbe-buffer) (set-buffer vm-sbe-buffer))] 5>) It appears to work find on Solaris.

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Distribution Build Report for XEmacs-21.2.12 25 years, 8 months

Steven Baur

Greetings XEmacs beta testers. I am in the process of building the next distribution of XEmacs 21.2. I have tested the attached configuration. Sincerely, The XEmacs Build 'Bot -- uname -a: BSD/OS camelot-soft.camelot-soft.com 3.0 BSDI BSD/OS 3.0 Kernel #0: Thu Jul 17 23:30:01 PDT 1997 root＠camelot-soft.camelot-soft.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/CAMELOT i386 ./configure '--prefix=/usr/home/steveb/staging' '--cflags=-O' '--with-mule' '--without-x11' '--debug=no' '--error-checking=none' XEmacs 21.2-b12 "Clio" configured for `i386-pc-bsdi3.0'. Where should the build process find the source code? /usr/home/steveb/staging/xemacs-21.2 What installation prefix should install use? /usr/home/steveb/staging What operating system and machine description files should XEmacs use? `s/bsdos3.h' and `m/intel386.h' What compiler should XEmacs be built with? gcc -O Should XEmacs use the GNU version of malloc? yes Should XEmacs use the relocating allocator for buffers? yes What window system should XEmacs use? none Compiling in native sound support. Compiling in support for Berkeley DB. Compiling in support for GNU DBM. Compiling in Mule (multi-lingual) support. movemail will use "flock" for locking mail spool files.

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Distribution Build Report for XEmacs-21.0.65 25 years, 8 months

Steven Baur

Greetings XEmacs beta testers. I am in the process of building the next distribution of XEmacs 21.0. I have tested the attached configuration. Sincerely, The XEmacs Build 'Bot -- uname -a: BSD/OS camelot-soft.camelot-soft.com 3.0 BSDI BSD/OS 3.0 Kernel #0: Thu Jul 17 23:30:01 PDT 1997 root＠camelot-soft.camelot-soft.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/CAMELOT i386 ./configure '--prefix=/usr/home/steveb/staging' '--cflags=-O' '--with-mule' '--without-x11' '--debug=no' '--error-checking=none' XEmacs 21.0-b65 "20" configured for `i386-pc-bsdi3.0'. Where should the build process find the source code? /usr/home/steveb/staging/xemacs-21.0 What installation prefix should install use? /usr/home/steveb/staging What operating system and machine description files should XEmacs use? `s/bsdos3.h' and `m/intel386.h' What compiler should XEmacs be built with? gcc -O Should XEmacs use the GNU version of malloc? yes Should XEmacs use the relocating allocator for buffers? yes What window system should XEmacs use? none Compiling in native sound support. Compiling in support for Berkeley DB. Compiling in support for GNU DBM. Compiling in Mule (multi-lingual) support. Compiling in DLL support. movemail will use "flock" for locking mail spool files.

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Re: XEmacs 21.0.65 "20 minutes to =?iso-2022-jp-2?b?GyRCRnw4dxsoQg==?=" is released 25 years, 8 months

Jan Vroonhof

SL Baur <steve(a)xemacs.org> writes: > "Are we there yet?" > "I told you the last time you asked, we're 20 minutes away." Is the 21.0 release going to be the "sleeping cat"? Jan

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XEmacs-Beta March 1999