May 1998 - XEmacs-Beta - XEmacs Mailing List Archives

Re: .emacs vs .xemacs vs .xemacs.el vs...? 26 years, 6 months

Michael Harnois

david.bush(a)adn.alcatel.com (David Bush) writes: > I'm confused on this. The Xemacs 20.3 that I use at work puts the options > into ~/.xemacs_options, not into .emacs. Did this change at 20.4? No, it changed with the current beta. That's what I'm still a bit perplexed about. I really don't care where it is, just so that a significant change like this appears in the beta announcement. -- Michael D. Harnois, Redeemer Lutheran Church, Washburn, IA mharnois(a)sbt.net aa0bt(a)aa0bt.ampr.org Never, "for the sake of peace and quiet," deny your own experience or convictions. -- Dag Hammarskjold

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Re: .emacs vs .xemacs vs .xemacs.el vs...? 26 years, 6 months

Jan Vroonhof

Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic(a)srce.hr> writes: > This is turning into an xemacs-beta FAQ. No specific decision was > ever made. `.xemacs/' was never used in a released XEmacs version. Nor was ".xemacs-custom" BTW. Jan

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Re: custom-file 26 years, 6 months

Jan Vroonhof

Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic(a)srce.hr> writes: > I couldn't care less which one you choose, as long as the default > behaviour is to NOT create a .xemacs/ directory and ram it down my > throat. Why is creating yet another file in ~/ (i.e. ~/.emacs-customs) to be prefered over creating a directory?

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custom file .xemacs and all that jazz. 26 years, 6 months

Jan Vroonhof

Recardless of whether a feature freeze is the appropriate time to discuss I propose the following (I fell that if we are meddling with it to create seperate custom files etc, it is better to do it correctly now) 1. early-packages is made to depend on the value of init-file-user (I thought we already agreed to do that). 2. custom-set-variables is changed to set 'last-custom-loaded-from' to the current load file. 3. In cus-edit ;; NB "init-file-user" independent (defcustom custom-file (concat "~" user-init-directory "lisp/options.el") Furthermore when saving options, cus-edit creates the whole path if need be. 4. Before any init file loading is done in starup.el ;; This depends on init-file-user through early-package-path (setq custom-file (or (locate-library "options" nil early-package-load-path ) custom-file)) (setq custom-default-file custom-file) 5. ".emacs-early" is loaded by (setq user-early-init-file (or (locate-library "init-early" nil early-package-load-path) (concat "~" init-file-user "/" init-user-directoy "/lisp-init-early.el"))) (load user-early-init-file t t t) 6. load-user-init-file is replaced by (IMHO a lot cleaner than the current version because it uses built in search mechanisms). (defun load-user-init-file (init-file-user) "This function actually reads the users init files." (when init-file-user (setq last-custom-load-from nil) ; Prefer ".xemacs/lisp/init.[el[c]]" if there is one ; Fall back to "~/.emacs" other wise. (setq user-init-file (or (locate-library "init" nil early-package-load-path) (concat "~" init-file-user "/.emacs"))) (load user-init-file t t t) ; Load the custom file (unless inhibit-default-custom (load custom-file t t t)) ; ; Set custom-file to a decent place to save the customizations. ; i.e. if the customizations were in ~/.emacs, they stay there. ; If we were told to put them somewhere explictly we put them ; there. (when (eq custom-file default-custom-file) (setq custom-file (or last-custom-load-from (get 'custom-file 'standard-value)))) (unless inhibit-default-init (let ((inhibit-startup-message nil)) ;; Users are supposed to be told their rights. ;; (Plus how to get help and how to undo.) ;; Don't you dare turn this off for anyone except yourself. (load "default" t t))))) This design ensures (assuming init-file-user = "" and u-i-directory= ".xemacs") Backwards compatibility (with FSF and 20.4) a. No ~.xemacs/lisp/init.el => .emacs is used. b. If customize stuff is in .emacs that gets evalled (of course) and custom stuff also saved there Sensible, 'no suprise' defaults c. ~/.emacs is still the default when init.el is not there. [do we want that] d. Customize stuff gets saved to a seperate file (~/xemacs/lisp/options.el). Easy configuration e. It would be easy to write a "migrate.el" that can covert .xemacs-options and .emacs custom settings to ~/xemacs/lisp/options.el and optionially move the rest to ~/xemacs/lisp/init.el. f. Want to copy somebody elses custom options? xemacs -u otheruser Reset custom-file to default value Save all customizations.

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Re: .emacs vs .xemacs vs .xemacs.el vs...? 26 years, 6 months

David Bush

Hrvoje Niksic wrote: > > Raymond Toy <toy(a)rtp.ericsson.se> writes: > > > I regret not having followed the decision not to use .xemacs/ > > anymore. > > > > However, since the decision has been made not to use .xemacs/, but > > .emacs instead, I'm getting confused. Are customizations going to be > > stored in .emacs now? What happened to the use of .xemacs (or was > > that .xemacs.el) to hold XEmacs startup code? Current behavior (b41) > > shows that .xemacs/init.el is still read. > > This is turning into an xemacs-beta FAQ. No specific decision was > ever made. `.xemacs/' was never used in a released XEmacs version. > Customizations aren't stored to `.emacs' "now", they've always been > stored to .emacs (and no, I don't like that). I sense that, if I > repeat it more, I think I'm gonna scream with frustration. :-( I'm confused on this. The Xemacs 20.3 that I use at work puts the options into ~/.xemacs_options, not into .emacs. Did this change at 20.4? david

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Re: .emacs vs .xemacs vs .xemacs.el vs...? 26 years, 6 months

Raymond Toy

Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic(a)srce.hr> writes: > Raymond Toy <toy(a)rtp.ericsson.se> writes: > > > I regret not having followed the decision not to use .xemacs/ > > anymore. > > > > However, since the decision has been made not to use .xemacs/, but > > .emacs instead, I'm getting confused. Are customizations going to be > > stored in .emacs now? What happened to the use of .xemacs (or was > > that .xemacs.el) to hold XEmacs startup code? Current behavior (b41) > > shows that .xemacs/init.el is still read. > > This is turning into an xemacs-beta FAQ. No specific decision was > ever made. `.xemacs/' was never used in a released XEmacs version. > Customizations aren't stored to `.emacs' "now", they've always been > stored to .emacs (and no, I don't like that). I sense that, if I But for the last many betas, my customize options were stored in .xemacs/xemacs-options but perhaps that's a remnant that never got changed in my ./xemacs/init.el. > repeat it more, I think I'm gonna scream with frustration. :-( Sorry! > > Finally, this decision is not final. It is only a strategic drawback > before the impending release. It was judged not yet ready for prime time, and that's fine with me. I do hope we revisit this, because I rather liked having everything in the .xemacs directory. Less clutter. So let me get this straight. This is how the real 21.0 is supposed to work. 1. customize (and "save options") saves its stuff in .emacs 2. XEmacs loads only .emacs (./xemacs/init.el is gone, and .xemacs and .xemacs.el never existed.) 3. There is no options.el Ray

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Re: initialization of frame info 26 years, 6 months

Hrvoje Niksic

Jan Vroonhof <vroonhof(a)math.ethz.ch> writes: > Ben Wing <ben(a)666.com> writes: > > > > May we load something like ~/.xemacs-early for those who care? > > May I again propose > > ~/.xemacs/init-early.el Err, no. It should check whether `.xemacs/' is available. For instance: (defun startup-choose (with without) (if (file-directory-p "~/.xemacs") (expand-file-name with "~/.xemacs") (expand-file-name without "~"))) Then, use something like: (load (startup-choose "init-early.el" ".xemacs-early")) -- Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic(a)srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia --------------------------------+-------------------------------- Thou Who might be our Father Who perhaps may be in Heaven... -- Roger Zelazny

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Re: custom-file 26 years, 6 months

Hrvoje Niksic

Didier Verna <verna(a)inf.enst.fr> writes: > Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic(a)srce.hr> writes: > > > Read my lips: I don't *want* to have a `.xemacs/' directory. Not > > until this directory is absolutely necessary. > > For init and options, ok, this is worth discussing. But not even for > putting your own packages, when you're not the sysadm, when you're > not root on your machine, and when you didn't compile xemacs > yourself ? I don't use packages in that fashion, yet. > But for custom, I'd really like a separate file, and there's one > thing I hate, it's to add yet another .bullshit hidden file in my > home dir. (setq custom-file "~/.bullshit/xemacs-custom") (load custom-file) or: (setq custom-file "~/.xemacs/options.el") (load custom-file) I couldn't care less which one you choose, as long as the default behaviour is to NOT create a .xemacs/ directory and ram it down my throat. -- Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic(a)srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia --------------------------------+-------------------------------- main(){printf(&unix["\021%six\012\0"],(unix)["have"]+"fun"-0x60);}

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.emacs vs .xemacs vs .xemacs.el vs...? 26 years, 6 months

Raymond Toy

I regret not having followed the decision not to use .xemacs/ anymore. I would have tried to help make it work. However, since the decision has been made not to use .xemacs/, but .emacs instead, I'm getting confused. Are customizations going to be stored in .emacs now? What happened to the use of .xemacs (or was that .xemacs.el) to hold XEmacs startup code? Current behavior (b41) shows that .xemacs/init.el is still read. My brain hurts. Ray

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Re: initialization of frame info 26 years, 6 months

Jan Vroonhof

Ben Wing <ben(a)666.com> writes: > > May we load something like ~/.xemacs-early for those who care? May I again propose ~/.xemacs/init-early.el Jan With the package stuff it would even be better to use ~/.xemacs/lisp/init-early.el then the normal lisp code can be used to load it?

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XEmacs-Beta May 1998