May 1998 - XEmacs-Beta - XEmacs Mailing List Archives

Re: .emacs vs .xemacs vs .xemacs.el vs...? 26 years, 6 months

Hrvoje Niksic

SL Baur <steve(a)xemacs.org> writes: > You can't tell which file it is being loaded from. If someone has > changed the value of custom-file and hand loads it in .emacs they > will now lose. Yup. That's what I've been doing for quite some time now. Although, I like Glynn's suggestion for temporary rebinding of options. With a little more thought, I think it might work. -- Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic(a)srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia --------------------------------+-------------------------------- Speak softly and carry a +6 two-handed sword.

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Re: custom file .xemacs and all that jazz. 26 years, 6 months

Hrvoje Niksic

sperber(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (Michael Sperber [Mr. Preprocessor]) writes: > >>>>> "Hrvoje" == Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic(a)srce.hr> writes: > > Hrvoje> Jan Vroonhof <vroonhof(a)math.ethz.ch> writes: > > >> ;; This depends on init-file-user through early-package-path > >> (setq custom-file (or (locate-library "options" nil > >> early-package-load-path ) custom-file)) > > Hrvoje> I don't like this. early-package-load-path has a well-defined meaning > Hrvoje> and is orthogonal to custom-file location. Linking them like this > Hrvoje> looks like inviting trouble. > > Exactly. I'll veto anything that fucks with ~/.xemacs as a package > hierarchy pure and simple. OK. Note that, given the choice, I would prefer `.xemacs/' to mean "startup-files directory" than "personal package directory". But it should definitely not mean both, so we agree. -- Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic(a)srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia --------------------------------+-------------------------------- Thou Who might be our Father Who perhaps may be in Heaven... -- Roger Zelazny

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Finally a crash again.... 26 years, 6 months

Jan Vroonhof

For those of you who like to fix bug instead of fighting about where custom options should go, here is a crash I just got. Fatal error (6). Your files have been auto-saved. Use `M-x recover-session' to recover them. [..] Fatal error: assertion failed, file eval.c, line 1877, abort() Here is a gdb where #0 0xeeff4340 in _kill () (gdb) where #0 0xeeff4340 in _kill () #1 0xeefba5e8 in abort () #2 0xd6958 in signal_1 () #3 0xd7c5c in signal_error () #4 0x26ad70 in set_marker_internal () #5 0x28f550 in kill_buffer_processes () #6 0xc7e50 in fatal_error_signal () #7 <signal handler called> #8 0x6e645069 in ?? () #9 0xd6958 in signal_1 () #10 0xd7c5c in signal_error () #11 0x2f5b14 in symbol_value_in_buffer () #12 0x236cfc in buffer_insert_string_1 () #13 0x237d6c in buffer_insert_raw_string_1 () #14 0x2675b8 in lisp_buffer_writer () #15 0x263218 in Lstream_flush_out () #16 0x2632c0 in Lstream_flush () #17 0x2632c0 in Lstream_flush () #18 0x2629b4 in finalize_lstream () #19 0x61b84 in garbage_collect_1 () #20 0xe075c in funcall_recording_as () #21 0x77f94 in Fbyte_code () #22 0xe618c in funcall_lambda () #23 0xe1658 in funcall_recording_as () #24 0x77f94 in Fbyte_code () #25 0xe618c in funcall_lambda () #26 0xe1658 in funcall_recording_as () #27 0x77f94 in Fbyte_code () #28 0xe618c in funcall_lambda () #29 0xe1658 in funcall_recording_as () #30 0xe36d0 in Fapply () #31 0xdf9e8 in Feval () #32 0xd0488 in Fif () #33 0xdf8a8 in Feval () #34 0xd07e0 in Fprogn () #35 0xbb4d0 in Fsave_excursion () #36 0xdf8a8 in Feval () #37 0xe5a10 in funcall_lambda () #38 0xe16fc in funcall_recording_as () #39 0xe66d8 in run_hook_with_args_in_buffer () #40 0xe6314 in Frun_hooks () #41 0xe0f2c in funcall_recording_as () #42 0xe3730 in Fapply () #43 0xe0f2c in funcall_recording_as () #44 0x77f94 in Fbyte_code () #45 0xe618c in funcall_lambda () #46 0xe1658 in funcall_recording_as () #47 0x77f94 in Fbyte_code () #48 0xe618c in funcall_lambda () #49 0xe1658 in funcall_recording_as () #50 0x77f94 in Fbyte_code () #51 0xe618c in funcall_lambda () #52 0xe1658 in funcall_recording_as () #53 0x77f94 in Fbyte_code () #54 0xe618c in funcall_lambda () #55 0xe1658 in funcall_recording_as () #56 0x77f94 in Fbyte_code () #57 0xe618c in funcall_lambda () #58 0xe1658 in funcall_recording_as () #59 0xe6a24 in apply1 () #60 0x7b148 in Fcall_interactively () #61 0xdd440 in Fcommand_execute () #62 0x16ffac in execute_command_event () #63 0x171934 in Fdispatch_event () #64 0x94aac in Fcommand_loop_1 () #65 0xd5650 in condition_case_1 () #66 0x93708 in command_loop_2 () #67 0xd4874 in internal_catch () #68 0x93c04 in initial_command_loop () #69 0xc99ec in xemacs_21_0_b41_sparc_sun_solaris2_5_1 () #70 0xca38c in main () I hit C-g as gnus was taking a long time visiting a large nnfolder group. uname -a: SunOS bolzano 5.5.1 Generic_103640-08 sun4u sparc SUNW,Ultra-1 ./configure '--prefix=/scratch/vroonhof/xe205' '--with-gcc=no' '--site-prefixes=/u/scratch/vroonhof/jpeg6a:/u/scratch/jvsoft/:/u/scratch/jvsoft/canna:/usr/local' '--with-workshop=no' '-with-site-lisp' '--with-mule=yes' XEmacs 21.0-b41 "San Clemente-pre1" configured for `sparc-sun-solaris2.5.1'. Where should the build process find the source code? /scratch/vroonhof/cvs/xemacs-20 What installation prefix should install use? /scratch/vroonhof/xe205 What operating system and machine description files should XEmacs use? `s/sol2.h' and `m/sparc.h' What compiler should XEmacs be built with? cc -v -xO4 Should XEmacs use the GNU version of malloc? yes Should XEmacs use the relocating allocator for buffers? yes What window system should XEmacs use? x11 Where do we find X Windows header files? /usr/dt/include /usr/local/X11/include Where do we find X Windows libraries? /usr/dt/lib /usr/local/X11/lib Additional prefixes: /u/scratch/vroonhof/jpeg6a /u/scratch/jvsoft/ /u/scratch/jvsoft/canna /usr/local Runtime library search path: /u/scratch/jvsoft//lib:/usr/local/lib:/usr/dt/lib:/usr/local/X11/lib:/opt/SUNWdt/lib Compiling in support for XAUTH. Compiling in support for XPM images. Compiling in support for X-Face message headers. Compiling in support for GIF image conversion. Compiling in support for JPEG image conversion. Compiling in support for PNG image conversion. Compiling in support for GNU DBM. Compiling in Mule (multi-lingual) support. Compiling in XIM (X11R5+ I18N input method) support. Using Motif to provide XIM support. Compiling in support for Canna on Mule. Compiling in support for ToolTalk. Compiling in support for OffiX. Compiling in support for Drag'n'Drop ( OffiX ). Compiling in support for proper session-management. Using Lucid menubars. Using Lucid scrollbars. Using Motif dialog boxes. Compiling in DLL support. movemail will use "dot-locking" for locking mail spool files. Compiling in extra code for debugging. Compiling in code for checking XEmacs memory usage. WARNING: --------------------------------------------------------- WARNING: Compiling in support for runtime error checking. WARNING: XEmacs will run noticeably more slowly as a result. WARNING: Error checking is on by default for XEmacs beta releases. WARNING: ---------------------------------------------------------

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Re: custom-file 26 years, 6 months

Hrvoje Niksic

Didier Verna <verna(a)inf.enst.fr> writes: > OK. I don't want to make this duscussion last forever. The directory > issue can indeed be postponed to 21.1. However, there's still this > problem of writing custom stuff into .emacs. I'm sorry[1] but to me > this issue is important enough to postpone the 21.0 release. I disagree. There is absolutely no reason to postpone 21.0 because of this, because the same problem was present in 20.4, and is still present in FSF Emacs (only Stallman doesn't consider it a problem). > Imagine the poor guy that uses XEmacs to try it, Customize and save > some variables. Now next time he starts stallmacs, his .emacs full > of custom stuff will blow in his face ?! I *know* it's the way it is > in 20.[3,4]. I just can't beleive it :-/ Try it if you don't believe it. > Really, can't we afford one or two more weeks of `feature unfreeze' > to solve this[2] ? I would advise against this. -- Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic(a)srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia --------------------------------+-------------------------------- "Memory is like an orgasm. It's a lot better if you don't have to fake it." -- Seymour Cray, on virtual memory

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Re: custom-file 26 years, 6 months

Hrvoje Niksic

Jan Vroonhof <vroonhof(a)math.ethz.ch> writes: > Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic(a)srce.hr> writes: > > > It's not. My point is that I want to have a *choice* whether I want > > `.xemacs/' or not, and for that choice to be respected. > > Which is OK. It just that I want the default to be WITH .xemacs. Now I'm confused. -- Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic(a)srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia --------------------------------+-------------------------------- Jone's law: The man who smiles when things go wrong has thought of someone to blame it on.

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Re: .emacs vs .xemacs vs .xemacs.el vs...? 26 years, 6 months

Michael Sperber

>>>>> "Stephen" == Stephen J Turnbull <turnbull(a)sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> writes: >>>>> "ms" == Michael Sperber <sperber(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> writes: Stephen> However, I personally want exactly one XEmacs data-directory in my Stephen> $HOME, Agreed. Stephen> and I really hope it will be named ~/.xemacs. I don't really care what it's called. The more informative the name the better. ms> Apart from the fact that I'd be sympathetic to changing the ms> name of ~/.xemacs to ~/.xemacs-packages (now that we've ms> renamed the default late package directory to ms> xemacs-packages), Stephen> Huh? I know :-) I haven't documented it yet (next weekend ...), but it works. Try it. ms> there's a third solution: ms> (4) Load user init files from anywhere in the load-path. Stephen> Which currently would put it somewhere under ~/.xemacs, Stephen> right? Yes. Stephen> So you need to add an init directory to the load path No. Stephen> This puts the user at risk if for example the default early package Stephen> directory should be renamed, right? Any change renaming anything puts the user at risk. Stephen> I think _the_ init file should have a known location, not dependent on Stephen> things that might change with configuration or version Stephen> changes. I agree, but I wouldn't cry if it turned out different. Stephen> That's a matter of point of view. I certainly hope that Stephen> XEmacs packages will experience an arbitrary proliferation, Well, in that sense, we already have: .newsrc.eld, .vm etc. etc. etc. I didn't think about this before, but this, I think, underlines that we should wait until 21.1 to solve all of these problems with one generic mechanism. We don't understand the issues sufficiently to make a good, lasting decision. I also think there's no particular pressure to do so. -- Cheers =8-} Chipsy Friede, Völkerverständigung und überhaupt blabla

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Re: .emacs vs .xemacs vs .xemacs.el vs...? 26 years, 6 months

Michael Sperber

>>>>> "Stephen" == Stephen J Turnbull <turnbull(a)sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> writes: >>>>> "ms" == Michael Sperber <sperber(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> writes: >>>>> "Hrvoje" == Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic(a)srce.hr> writes: ms> Hrvoje's absolutely right. ms> If you guys put random stuff in there, I promise something ms> will break eventually. It does not belong there. Ever. Stephen> That's a policy decision, which may be a good one. But I don't see Stephen> any reason why it _must_ break something in packages: the package root Stephen> directory should _never_ have any _package_ code in it. That's the way the current layout works. It may change. Stephen> (1) brute-force: XEmacs-mandated user initialization and custom files go in Stephen> ~/.xemacs, which doubles as the package root directory. This is bad, and I'll veto it. By default, ~/.xemacs is just another early package. This default, however, can be changed very easily by the user. Thus, under this setup, two things (actually: may or or may not) collide which by design have little or no cohesion and potential interference. Stephen> (2) init package: init files live in ~/.xemacs/lisp/init/ or Stephen> something like that. Stephen> This is OK for auto-generated files, but users will hate it as a Stephen> location for init.el. Stephen> variation: init.el lives somewhere else, and the auto-generated Stephen> files live in an options package. Stephen> (3) separate package root: package root is not ~/.xemacs/, but Stephen> ~/.xemacs/packages. Apart from the fact that I'd be sympathetic to changing the name of ~/.xemacs to ~/.xemacs-packages (now that we've renamed the default late package directory to xemacs-packages), there's a third solution: (4) Load user init files from anywhere in the load-path. Have customization be put into a designated file in the user's home directory. That's where, by default, Unix applications stick their customization files anyway. It's not like there'll be an arbitrary proliferation of them. Generally, I think we should keep it as in 20.4 for 21.0 and re-open the case for 21.1. -- Cheers =8-} Chipsy Friede, Völkerverständigung und überhaupt blabla

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[CRASH] 21.0-b41 on i686-pc-linux/Redhat5.0 26 years, 6 months

Aki Vehtari

xemacs-21.0-b41 -vanilla Eval in *scratch* (setq recent-files-list '( ("/ftp＠ftp.fh-koblenz.de:/pub/Mirror/ftp.xemacs.org/pub/xemacs/beta/xemacs-20.5/" . t) )) (load "recent-files") (recent-files-initialize) Click `Recent Files' menu. ... Fatal error (11). ... Lisp backtrace follows: # (condition-case ... . error) # (catch top-level ...) zsh: 5762 segmentation fault (core dumped) src/xemacs -vanilla chaos 13:14 % gdb src/xemacs core ... Core was generated by `src/xemacs -vanilla'. Program terminated with signal 11, Segmentation fault. #0 0x40359661 in ?? () (gdb) where #0 0x40359661 in ?? () Cannot access memory at address 0xbfffea18. uname -a: Linux chaos.lce.hut.fi 2.0.32 #1 Thu Apr 16 11:25:50 EDT 1998 i686 unknown ./configure '--gung-ho' '--prefix=/proj/ave/xemacs' '--debug=yes' '--error-checking=all' '--use-union-type' XEmacs 21.0-b41 "San Clemente" configured for `i686-pc-linux'. Where should the build process find the source code? /proj/ave/xemacs/xemacs-21.0-b41 What installation prefix should install use? /proj/ave/xemacs What operating system and machine description files should XEmacs use? `s/linux.h' and `m/intel386.h' What compiler should XEmacs be built with? gcc -g -O3 -Wall -Wno-switch Should XEmacs use the GNU version of malloc? yes (Using Doug Lea's new malloc from the GNU C Library.) Should XEmacs use the relocating allocator for buffers? yes What window system should XEmacs use? x11 Where do we find X Windows header files? /usr/X11R6/include Where do we find X Windows libraries? /usr/X11R6/lib Compiling in support for XAUTH. Compiling in support for XPM images. Compiling in support for X-Face message headers. Compiling in support for JPEG image conversion. Compiling in support for PNG image conversion. Compiling in support for TIFF image conversion. Compiling in native sound support. Compiling in support for Berkeley DB. Compiling in support for GNU DBM. Compiling in support for ncurses. Compiling in support for GPM (General Purpose Mouse). Compiling in support for OffiX. Compiling in support for Drag'n'Drop ( OffiX ). Compiling in support for proper session-management. Using Lucid menubars. Using Lucid scrollbars. Using Motif dialog boxes. Compiling in DLL support. movemail will use "dot-locking" for locking mail spool files. Using the union type for Lisp_Objects. Using Lisp_Objects with minimal tagbits. Using indexed lrecord implementation. Compiling in extra code for debugging. Compiling in code for checking XEmacs memory usage. WARNING: --------------------------------------------------------- WARNING: Compiling in support for runtime error checking. WARNING: XEmacs will run noticeably more slowly as a result. WARNING: Error checking is on by default for XEmacs beta releases. WARNING: ---------------------------------------------------------

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Re: [Success] XEmacs 21.0-b41 "San Clemente" configured for `mips-sgi-irix6.3' 26 years, 6 months

Andy Piper

At 11:52 AM 5/27/98 +0200, Björn Torkelsson wrote: >Hi, > >So far it seems to work. I downloaded the tar-balls and made a clean >installation. I got a few complains about 'cast between pointer-to-object >and pointer-to-function' (especially in eval.c and specifier.c), but from >what I understood they shouldn't matter, or should they? > >However one little thing, package-get.el use file-installed-p, which are >not in the core distribution, but in the apel-package. Shouldn't it be >moved to the core distribution or the xemacs-base? Oops - this is my fault. Can it be moved Steve? Or should I code something different? andy --------------------------------------------------------------------------- " .sigs are like your face - rarely seen by you and uglier than you think" Dr Andy Piper, Technical Architect, Parallax Solutions Ltd mail: andyp(a)parallax.co.uk web: www.parallax.co.uk/~andyp

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Re: .emacs vs .xemacs vs .xemacs.el vs...? 26 years, 6 months

SL Baur

Glynn Clements <glynn(a)sensei.co.uk> writes: >> > How about binding custom-set-* (e.g. with flet) during the reading of >> > user-init-file, to a function which displays a warning? This could >> > suggest that the user move these entries to the new file. >> >> You can't tell which file it is being loaded from. If someone has >> changed the value of custom-file and hand loads it in .emacs they will >> now lose. > Hmm. Would it make more sense to unconditionally load whichever file > custom-file refers to? Unfortunately not. That has been the documented price of extortion ("rename your custom file and you load it and I promise to not molest your .emacs"). > Alternatively, you could flet load-file as well. I'm not sure how well that will work. The Work Of Satan (aka jka-compr.el) takes liberties in the area of redefining low-level load functions. For another example, EFS overwrites `load-file' with `default-dir-load-file' when it is initialized. > In general, it might be useful if load-file `pushed' the current > file onto a stack of active files, e.g. so that errors could be > attributed to a particular file, similar to gcc's `In file included > from ...'. The information is available somewhere because it gets saved in the load-history.

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XEmacs-Beta May 1998