12:46 p.m.
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Hey there everyone.
I have just added the following packages to the 'Pre-Releases'
directory:
New Packages in Pre-Release:
===========================
mmm-mode-1.04-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: 0.4.8
Previously Announced Packages Still in Pre-Release:
==================================================
dired-1.20-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: 7.17
easypg-1.03-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: 0.0.16
ede-1.03-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: 1.0pre4
edit-utils-2.41-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: none
eshell-1.18-pkg.tar.gz upstream version:
0fc80a3f6bb3bb59f42e9ff83cc8b89bf90fe658
fsf-compat-1.19-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: none
general-docs-1.06-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: none
ibuffer-1.10-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: none
ilisp-1.35-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: 5.12.0
latin-euro-standards-1.09-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: 1.09
prog-modes-2.20-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: none
ruby-modes-1.04-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: 1.8.7
text-modes-1.97-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: none
vc-1.46-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: none
Detailed Changes:
================
- ------- ChangeLog Entries from xemacs-packages/mmm-mode/ChangeLog -------
2009-08-14 Norbert Koch <viteno(a)xemacs.org>
* Makefile (VERSION): XEmacs package 1.04 released.
2009-08-13 Aidan Kehoe <kehoea(a)parhasard.net>
* mmm-cmds.el:
* mmm-cmds.el (mmm-destructuring-bind): New.
Macro that corresponds to `destructuring-bind', but that does not
error if the structures do not match.
* mmm-cmds.el (mmm-insert-by-key):
Use it, instead of `multiple-value-bind', to avoid unwanted
interactions with actual working multiple-value implementations.
Installing These:
================
Manually:
- --------
1) Download the packages that you want to install from:
/ftp.xemacs.org:/pub/xemacs/beta/experimental/packages/
2) Unpack them to: [1]
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/
3) Re-start XEmacs.
Using XEmacs Package Tools (XEmacs 21.[245].x):
- ----------------------------------------------
1) Tools -> Packages -> Add Download Site -> Pre-Releases
2) Tools -> Packages -> List and Install
3) Select the packages you wish to install (there are brief
instructions at the bottom of the packages buffer).
4) Packages -> Install/Remove Selected
5) Re-start XEmacs.
Using XEmacs Package Tools (XEmacs 21.1.14):
- -------------------------------------------
1) Options -> Manage Packages -> Add Download Site -> Pre-Releases
2) Options -> Manage Packages -> List and Install
3 - 5) As per XEmacs 21.[245].x.
norbert - XEmacs Package Release Manager.
Footnotes:
[1] Note: Mule packages should be installed into:
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/mule-packages/
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12:45 a.m.
* Norbert Koch <viteno(a)xemacs.org> writes:
I have just added the following packages to the
'Pre-Releases'
directory:
Just wanted to let you know... I had an absolute horrendous time updating
my packages yesterday. tux.org really is total crap. Their ftp server
has passive mode turned off, only accepts one connection per IP, and is
slower than my dead grandmother. I had to curl the packages I wanted to
update via HTTP to a local directory and then use PUI to install from
there.
Please please please, find a better place to host the packages. Oh, I
did try the Australian mirrors... one doesn't exist, the other is out of
date.
--
|---<Steve Youngs>---------------<GnuPG KeyID: A94B3003>---|
| SXEmacs - The only _______ you'll ever need. |
| Fill in the blank, yes, it's THAT good! |
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6:55 a.m.
How is SXEmacs handling hosting and mirrors? Do you have your own
network of mirrors?
Steve Youngs writes:
* Norbert Koch <viteno(a)xemacs.org> writes:
> I have just added the following packages to the 'Pre-Releases'
> directory:
Just wanted to let you know... I had an absolute horrendous time updating
my packages yesterday. tux.org really is total crap.
I'll pass on your complaints. They're in the process of installing
new hardware, but it's taking a long time due to the economy
... everybody seems to be doing the jobs that two people did 18 months
ago.
I had to curl the packages I wanted to update via HTTP to a local
directory and then use PUI to install from there.
You could of course extend PUI to do that for you ...
Please please please, find a better place to host the packages.
I don't have time for that personally.
Oh, I did try the Australian mirrors... one doesn't exist, the
other is out of date.
I'll ping Adrian, but he's not been terribly active lately. If he's
not in a position to follow up, I'll see what I can do about verifying
the mirrors.
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8:47 a.m.
* Stephen J Turnbull <stephen(a)xemacs.org> writes:
How is SXEmacs handling hosting and mirrors?
For the arch repos, each developer takes responsibility for hosting
their own repos. I only ask that I be given read access, but where they
host is up to them. The mainline SXEmacs arch repo (mine) is hosted at
Dreamhost <http://www.dreamhost.com/>;. I also host
downloads.sxemacs.org at the same place. downloads.sxemacs.org is where
you find release and snapshot tarballs.
Dreamhost is not a free service[1], but their fees are more than
reasonable[2] and they are a "green" organisation. That, IMO, is
reason enough to give them a look.
Do you have your own network of mirrors?
Not that I'm aware of (believe it or not). SXEmacs has found its way
into the Gentoo ports thingy[3], and I've recently learned that SXEmacs
is in NetBSD's "WIP" ports tree.
Steve Youngs writes:
> Just wanted to let you know... I had an absolute horrendous time updating
> my packages yesterday. tux.org really is total crap.
I'll pass on your complaints. They're in the process of
installing
new hardware, but it's taking a long time due to the economy
... everybody seems to be doing the jobs that two people did 18 months
ago.
Erm, yeah, they've been "in the process" for quite a few years now. I
understand that tux.org has been very good to the XEmacs project for
many many years, and that there is a fair degree of "loyalty" to break
through from the XEmacs side, but sinking ships and all that. If you
know what I mean.
> I had to curl the packages I wanted to update via HTTP to a
local
> directory and then use PUI to install from there.
You could of course extend PUI to do that for you ...
Actually, I think I will. We already have #'pui-bootstrap that uses
FFI/libcurl to leech EFS and xemacs-base. That wouldn't be too much
work to extend so that it alleviates the need for EFS completely for
PUI. That, in turn, would remove the restriction of FTP being the only
transport available for packages. Am I making you jealous yet? :-)
> Please please please, find a better place to host the packages.
I don't have time for that personally.
Well, I've given you one suggestion.
> Oh, I did try the Australian mirrors... one doesn't exist,
the
> other is out of date.
I'll ping Adrian, but he's not been terribly active lately.
If he's
not in a position to follow up, I'll see what I can do about verifying
the mirrors.
It's ftp.au.xemacs.org that doesn't exist anymore. Dunno what happened
to them (planetmirror.com). They used to host ftp.sxemacs.org and I was
never informed of anything.
Footnotes:
[1] I've been incredibly lucky in that one of my team (Nelson Ferreira)
has donated part of his personal storage and bandwidth on Dreamhost
to the SXEmacs project.
[2] Less than 10 bucks/month.
[3] Thanks to Horst Burkhardt.
--
|---<Steve Youngs>---------------<GnuPG KeyID: A94B3003>---|
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9:49 a.m.
New subject: Moving xemacs.org? [was: XEmacs Packages have been pre-released ...]
Steve Youngs writes:
Actually, I think I will. We already have #'pui-bootstrap that
uses
FFI/libcurl to leech EFS and xemacs-base. That wouldn't be too much
work to extend so that it alleviates the need for EFS completely for
PUI. That, in turn, would remove the restriction of FTP being the only
transport available for packages. Am I making you jealous yet? :-)
Of course not. If I haven't switched to SXEmacs yet, it isn't because
of the price! :-) (And I assure you it isn't because of the quality,
either, that was not a hidden jab. Le cœur a ses raisons que la raison
ne connaît pas. :^)
Footnotes:
[1] I've been incredibly lucky in that one of my team (Nelson Ferreira)
has donated part of his personal storage and bandwidth on Dreamhost
to the SXEmacs project.
I don't think we'd have any trouble getting donations. It's the
effort of moving and reproducing all the services that we have (if of
somewhat degraded quality) at Tux, not to mention the inevitable need
for volunteer admins to build up a whole new set of personal tools.
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8:13 a.m.
New subject: Moving xemacs.org?
I apologise in advance if you think I'm a little out of line here. I
possibly could have pulled my punches a bit more than I did, but I
believe it needed to be said.
* Stephen J Turnbull <stephen(a)xemacs.org> writes:
Steve Youngs writes:
> Am I making you jealous yet? :-)
Of course not. If I haven't switched to SXEmacs yet
No no, didn't want to suggest that you did, and no I didn't take what
you said as any kind of jab. What I was trying to do was to inspire you
guys into action that would lead to XEmacs getting FFI. :-)
> Footnotes:
> [1] I've been incredibly lucky in that one of my team (Nelson Ferreira)
> has donated part of his personal storage and bandwidth on Dreamhost
> to the SXEmacs project.
I don't think we'd have any trouble getting donations.
No, I agree, this isn't the problem you face.
It's the effort of moving and reproducing all the services that
we
have (if of somewhat degraded quality) at Tux, not to mention the
inevitable need for volunteer admins to build up a whole new set of
personal tools.
This is the problem. However, and this is key, it does *NOT* describe
the problem, it *IS* the problem. It's a bunch of excuses, and pretty
weak ones at that, too. XEmacs doesn't need excuses, she needs quick
decisions and actions. Please don't let this get buried for years in go
nowhere "discussions". Get the people, who are directly and immediately
affected, together. Nut out what to do[1]. And do it.
Should you run it by the Review Board? Sure, knock yourself out. But
all you gotta say is: "tux' ftp blows. Unless someone objects in the
next 48 hours, we're moving to xyz".
Am I being melodramatic? I don't know, can you spell "GPLv3"[2]
As for why the excuses are weak...
CVS, last time I looked, is SunSITE.dk, and Mercurial mainline repo is
at that Debian place. I don't know where your issue tracker is, but I
didn't think it was Tux. That leaves mailing lists and ftp.xemacs.org.
The mailing lists seem fine for now. The only "problems" I've ever
noticed is your over-zealous spam traps. :-)
The only thing you really need to concern yourself with is ftp. A
one-time set and forget rsync should take care of moving the data. No
new admins will be needed as you, Vin, and Norbert will continue in
your current capacities. And I bet you could even manage with your
current set of personal tools, perhaps with very minor edits to them.
Oh, I forgot www.xemacs.org. Ah, I have no doubts at all that Adrian
could move the entire site to another host inside 15 minutes (give or
take an hour or so). :-) And that's only if Adrian thinks Tux' web
server is behaving as bad as their ftp. IMO it's not, and I wouldn't
touch www.xemacs.org just yet.
Footnotes:
[1] Email is too slow. Find an IM service you all like and get it done
in real time. Welcome to the 21st century!
[2] Something that should of taken a maximum of a couple of hours that
is still not done, years later.
--
|---<Steve Youngs>---------------<GnuPG KeyID: A94B3003>---|
| SXEmacs - The only _______ you'll ever need. |
| Fill in the blank, yes, it's THAT good! |
|------------------------------------<steve(a)sxemacs.org>---|
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2:35 p.m.
New subject: Moving xemacs.org?
Steve Youngs writes:
This is the problem. However, and this is key, it does *NOT*
describe
the problem, it *IS* the problem. It's a bunch of excuses, and pretty
weak ones at that, too. XEmacs doesn't need excuses, she needs quick
decisions and actions.
I don't know that the FTP problem does need action of that kind. A
quick look at the FTP virtual host config for XEmacs shows it's badly
broken. Fixing that may or may not fix the passive FTP problem, but
it will fix the max one connection per host issue -- we're supposed to
be configured for 4 (the idea on the main host is to discourage people
from hogging bandwidth when a major distro releases, I guess). There
may be some other bandwidth-limiting factors that will improve, too.
Moving the FTP host is also harder than you make out. In seven
letters: M-I-R-R-O-R-S. It's not just a matter of adjusting the CNAME
for ftp.xemacs.org and everything just works.
Nut out what to do[2].
We need a release, that's what we need. So we need features worth
releasing. We've got some things going on, but nothing that's going
to make Steve "Martin" Yegge catch his breath. I'm not sure how to
deal that.
I don't know where your issue tracker is. Oh, I forgot
www.xemacs.org.
ITS is sitting on a U. Tsukuba server under my control; the database
is in PostgreSQL, the code and config in git. Moving www.xemacs.org
requires a cvs checkout, make, and fixing up DNS. Not hard. And you
missed DNS. That's also at Tux.
The mailing lists seem fine for now. The only "problems"
I've ever
noticed is your over-zealous spam traps. :-)
Heh. I'll be happy to forward any of them to you *before* they hit
the spam traps. I hope you have a gigabit connection to spare.
I appreciate your comments.
Far-better-to-be-in-error-than-to-be-in-doubt-fully y'rs,
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Steve Youngs