4:17 p.m.
I've been dreading the autoconf work to select between two different
versions of GTK. I wonder how people would feel about dropping support for
GTK 2 and supporting GTK 3 only.
It's not like it's completely working anyway. I will ifdef the changes
making it possible to port back to GTK 2 if somebody really wanted to.
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5:36 a.m.
Jeff Sparkes <jsparkes(a)gmail.com> writes:
I've been dreading the autoconf work to select between two
different
versions of GTK. I wonder how people would feel about dropping support for
GTK 2 and supporting GTK 3 only.
I'd feel just fine about that.
Thanks for working on this!
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6:40 a.m.
>>>> Michael Sperber <sperber(a)deinprogramm.de>
writes:
I'd feel just fine about that.
+1
Thanks for working on this!
+2
If you need help with testing, please drop a line.
By the way, what is the status of GTK with XEmacs? I had more or less
given up in it since no one was working on it and I realized that I
could not put in enough effort to contribute to it either. i.e. could
it be a solution for the 21.5 problems with xft-fonts etc?
Yours
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4:34 a.m.
Mats Lidell writes:
>>>>> Michael Sperber <sperber(a)deinprogramm.de>
writes:
> I'd feel just fine about that.
+1
I don't have a problem with it. Unless somebody speaks up to say that
GTK2 is native on their platform[1], I also have no problem with just
dropping (rather than #ifdef'ing) the GTK2 support as you modernize.
(Note that we may still go with dropping as far as I'm concerned, it's
just that if somebody actually wants it because GTK3 isn't installed
but GTK2 is installed, it becomes debatable.)
＠Jeff: Strategically, don't worry about dropping it for the moment,
just drop. If within a thousand lines of changes or so somebody
decides they care, *and* we decide to go with #ifdefs, I'll help with
getting that done. "Good VCS means never having to say, 'Oh, shit, I
deleted that!'" :-)
By the way, what is the status of GTK with XEmacs?
Pretty much the same as everything else: nobody's working on it so
it's wherever somebody last left off, incomplete and almost usable.
I had more or less given up in it since no one was working on it
and I realized that I could not put in enough effort to contribute
to it either. i.e. could it be a solution for the 21.5 problems
with xft-fonts etc?
No. I detest the GTK "look and feel" for one thing.[2] :-) If you use
GNOME (at least, I don't know about GTK 3 itself), you've got yet
another font configuration syntax to support. It is possible that we
could use something lower-level (such as pango, which Jeff has
mentioned before and Aidan prefers, I think). Also, I'm thinking
about a Cairo display type.
Note that AFAICT GTK does *not* solve the font problems. GTK
applications also exhibit broken clipping and overwriting behavior the
same as XEmacs, just much less frequently.
Footnotes:
[1] Eg, Mac OS X MacPorts doesn't qualify because Aqua is native, not
GTK, and GTK3 is as easily available as GTK2.
[2] At least those of GNU Emacs, Inkscape, and *Office.
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7:18 a.m.
Ar an triochadú lá de mí Deireadh Fómhair, scríobh Stephen J. Turnbull:
Mats Lidell writes:
> >>>>> Michael Sperber <sperber(a)deinprogramm.de> writes:
>
> > I'd feel just fine about that.
>
> +1
I don't have a problem with it.
Jeff, I agree, I think it’s reasonable for you to drop GTK3 support now.
[...] It is possible that we could use something lower-level (such
as
pango, which Jeff has mentioned before and Aidan prefers, I think).
This mis-characterises my opinion. I thought it would have been constructive
to move to Pango in what is currently the XFT code, for the sake of decent
bidi and font coverage support. Given that we have essentially no
development resources for the XFT port, I now think we should move to GTK
instead.
--
‘Liston operated so fast that he once accidentally amputated an assistant’s
fingers along with a patient’s leg, […] The patient and the assistant both
died of sepsis, and a spectator reportedly died of shock, resulting in the
only known procedure with a 300% mortality.’ (Atul Gawande, NEJM, 2012)
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4:11 a.m.
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
I don't have a problem with it. Unless somebody speaks up to say
that
GTK2 is native on their platform[1], I also have no problem with just
dropping (rather than #ifdef'ing) the GTK2 support as you modernize.
FWIW, Solaris is still using GNOME 2.x as the bundled desktop. I don't
see GTK3 support in Solaris 11, which means it's not in any of the older
releases, either.
On the other hand, I've always built XEmacs for Solaris using the
Lucid/Athena widgets, not GTK. So I don't object to dropping GTK2
support.
cheers,
mike
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5:29 a.m.
Mike Kupfer writes:
FWIW, Solaris is still using GNOME 2.x as the bundled desktop. I
don't
see GTK3 support in Solaris 11, which means it's not in any of the older
releases, either.
Interesting.
Solaris users, speak up if you care! (Even a little bit. :-)
(There's no deadline at this point, we just need to decide before Jeff
and anybody who decides to pitch in starts dropping 50 kloc patches on
us.:-)
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6:09 a.m.
On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 10:29 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen(a)xemacs.org>wrote:
Mike Kupfer writes:
> FWIW, Solaris is still using GNOME 2.x as the bundled desktop. I don't
> see GTK3 support in Solaris 11, which means it's not in any of the older
> releases, either.
Interesting.
Solaris users, speak up if you care! (Even a little bit. :-)
As a long time user of Solaris (sparc!), I've always compiled xemacs using
Athena and Lucid widgets, and, occasionally with Motif.
I've never even tried compiling xemacs with gtk on any system (unless it
defaulted to gtk on some system).
Ray
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1:44 p.m.
(There's no deadline at this point, we just need to decide before
Jeff
and anybody who decides to pitch in starts dropping 50 kloc patches on
us. :-)
The code is in https://bitbucket.org/jsparkes/xemacs-gtk
I'm up to date with the main xemacs repository. If you want it pulled or
pushed, into main, there should be no impact. Right now it's a pretty
usable GTK2 version. I have a few more changes to make before I switch it
to GTK3.
On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 1:29 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen(a)xemacs.org>wrote:
> Mike Kupfer writes:
>
> > FWIW, Solaris is still using GNOME 2.x as the bundled desktop. I don't
> > see GTK3 support in Solaris 11, which means it's not in any of the older
> > releases, either.
>
> Interesting.
>
> Solaris users, speak up if you care! (Even a little bit. :-)
>
(There's no deadline at this point, we just need to decide before
Jeff
and anybody who decides to pitch in starts dropping 50 kloc patches on
us. :-)
>
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9:49 p.m.
On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 02:29:35PM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
Mike Kupfer writes:
> FWIW, Solaris is still using GNOME 2.x as the bundled desktop. I don't
> see GTK3 support in Solaris 11, which means it's not in any of the older
> releases, either.
Interesting.
Solaris users, speak up if you care! (Even a little bit. :-)
having used Solaris some years ago.. it should not matter as long as there is
a non-gtk version.
Solaris users aren't users aren't but sysadmins, most don't care about xft,rtl
& bidi.
Richard
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12:25 p.m.
On 10/30/13 23:11, Mike Kupfer wrote:
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> I don't have a problem with it. Unless somebody speaks up to say that
> GTK2 is native on their platform[1], I also have no problem with just
> dropping (rather than #ifdef'ing) the GTK2 support as you modernize.
FWIW, Solaris is still using GNOME 2.x as the bundled desktop. I don't
see GTK3 support in Solaris 11, which means it's not in any of the older
releases, either.
On the other hand, I've always built XEmacs for Solaris using the
Lucid/Athena widgets, not GTK. So I don't object to dropping GTK2
support.
Seconded. I'm still on CDE on Solaris 10.
Not a big fan of GNOME but mostly too lazy to redo all my desktop
customization.
cheers,
mike
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