>>>> "Michael" == Michael Kifer
>>>> "MB" == Martin Buchholz <of Thu, 18 Jan 2001 16:20:29
Michael> When XEmacs starts up, it gives me a mouthful. Why
Michael> does it care?
Because XEmacs does very complex things with keymapping given the
MB> What you are doing is not ICCCM-compliant, I believe.
MB> You have to have one of the Control keys generate control.
Michael> Why? I have already assigned control to caps lock. I
No, you haven't (I'm deliberately interpreting control -> Control
keysym, as opposed to control -> control modifier bit) . That's not
your fault; X11 key mapping is brain dead. (Well, actually, to be
fair it was designed before our ancestors had evolved forebrains.)
Michael> don't have keys to waste. I actually bind the ctl key
Michael> (on the PC eyboard) to save-some-buffers !
Martin isn't speaking clearly. What he meant is "you have to have a
key whose keysym is Control_[LR] generate the control modifier." If
you have hands like Akeem Olajuwan, you could put the control modifier
bit on KeypadMinus---but you also need to put a Control keysym there.
Michael> I do something similar:
Michael> remove Control = Control_L
Michael> remove Lock = Caps_Lock
Michael> keysym Control_R = Caps_Lock
So far, so good. You now have no key that can do lock, and you have a
key in the lower right corner that does control. That key generates
the keysym Caps_Lock. The key in the lower left corner generates the
keysym Control_L, and the key to the left of the "A" generates the
Michael> add Control = Caps_Lock
You have added the control modifier to the key to the left of "A" and
(redundantly) to the key in the lower right corner.
Michael> keycode 37 = F22
I assume this keycode corresponds to the key in the lower left corner?
That key now generates the keysym F22. You have no Control keys
anymore, although you can generate control keystrokes. Summarizing:
Physical Keysym Modifier
------------------ --------- --------
Left of "A" Caps_Lock control
Lower left corner F22
Lower right corner Caps_Lock control
Michael> It is probably [keycode 37 = F22] that causes the warnings
Nope. The last line is completely unexceptionable. Look at the
errors: 37 != 0x6d or 0x42.
MB> what you're doing typically works even though it's illegal,
It depends on whether it matters if you have a Control key or not. It
probably doesn't. Unless you're Ben Wing, and can't hold down Control
and another key simultaneously on very bad days. Most of us aren't
Ben, and can chord, so we typically think "it works."
Howevva ... some implementations of menu accelerators "do something"
(like highlight the menu bar) as soon as you hit the Alt key. This
will break, for everybody, if there is no Alt key. Doesn't matter
whether or not there is an Alt modifier that allows you to produce
keystrokes like Alt-F.
Michael> I think it should be illegal to sell keyboards that have
Michael> Control in the wrong place :-)
Caveat emptor. :-)
MB> so maybe we should turn the warning off.
Michael> Please do.
Please don't. I'll have to revert it: Jamie knows my email, and I
don't look good as he does in "black and crispy." If you have to do
something, distribute xkeycaps(1X).
Michael, it's not your fault that X11's keyboard model is braindead.
You also (probably; 200 keyboards is a _lot_ of keyboards) don't
have to do anything about it personally, thanks to the fact that the
halflife of Jamie's brain is measured in months (or maybe years).
We, on the other hand, are going to undoubtedly be dealing with
braindeath of the sort that caused the (now obsolete and removed,
praise be) Mandrake-bashing entries in PROBLEMS, because Linux (and
probably the BSDs) are spawning efforts to standardize and debase^W
make user-friendly all user interfaces. For years.
It is _not_ true that XEmacs is no more complex than any other app
(for God's sake Martin, you're the Bullshit/Defeat guru for this
project! you should know better). And it's supposed to get more
complex (have you forgotten that Ben plans to add menu accelerators
for keyboards that have more than 1 extra modifier key?)
 And none of them are JIS, and only about 2 know anything about
Japanese. But that's OK, XFree86's (and Linux's) Japanese keyboard
data are all broken anyway. Another day, another <RANT>.
University of Tsukuba Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences Tel/fax: +81 (298) 53-5091
_________________ _________________ _________________ _________________
What are those straight lines for? "XEmacs rules."