July 1998 - XEmacs-Beta - XEmacs Mailing List Archives

Oscar Figueiredo

Here is a repost of ldap.texi since it apparently got corrupted in my previous post. Oscar

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Re: Where do you want to go tomorrow? (reformat) 25 years, 9 months

Karl M. Hegbloom

CLISP sounds really neat. When I'm farther along in my studies, I'll get back to learning Common Lisp. :-) Looking forward to seeing it as part of XEmacs. Especially if it's multi-threaded! Wow!

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Re: This will not do 25 years, 9 months

Oliver Graf

Andy Piper <andyp(a)parallax.co.uk> writes: > >I've removed the set-face and the custom-face entries for toolbar and > >gui-default. You're patch is also applied (the one which adds something > >with > >gui-default into x-faces.el). > > > Looking at your setup I think the problem is that you don't set background > globally and so the background comes from the default face > your changes to which doesn't get read early enough for the initial frame. > This leads me to believe that you were relying on the hardcoded value of > the toolbarforground color. If you wete to do Emacs*background: something I > think that would have the desired effect. But then everything has a black background... but modeline, menubar and toolbar should be gray 80... > I'm not sure what the solution here is. I think the behaviour is right. My > inclination would be to put back the hardcoded value and remove the > defaulting to the default face. But even this has problems. I think not. If I say toolbar has gray80 background with custom, and it comes up white, it seems to be a bug for me. Regards, Oliver.

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Two xemacs-psgml issues (ISO_8879:1986, "sgml") 25 years, 9 months

Adrian Aichner

>>>>> "sb" == SL Baur <steve(a)xemacs.org> writes: Hello Steven, Andy, All, sb> Andy Piper <andyp(a)parallax.co.uk> writes: >> Er, I know you did the psgml goop in the core dist but did you do it >> in the packages as well (which is what Adrian is trying to check >> out)? sb> Ur, um. No. Oops. Sorry, my mistake. >> I don't see how you can have since we never resolved the issue of >> what code actually references the badly named files. this took some digging. Here's the story: Entities referenced by DTD are looked up in files by first transliterating to a file name: cd /export/home/tmp/packages-21.0/lisp/psgml/ egrep -ni transliter *.el /dev/null Compilation started at Sat Jul 4 13:59:44 1998 psgml-parse.el:1968: (nconc subst (list (cons ?p (sgml-transliterate-file pubid))) psgml-parse.el:2096: (cons ?o (sgml-transliterate-file (sgml-matched-string pubid 2))) psgml-parse.el:2098: (cons ?d (sgml-transliterate-file (sgml-matched-string pubid 5))) psgml-parse.el:2100: (cons ?t (sgml-transliterate-file (sgml-matched-string pubid 5))) psgml-parse.el:2103: (list (cons ?v (sgml-transliterate-file psgml-parse.el:2121:(defun sgml-transliterate-file (string) psgml-parse.el:2124: (or (cdr-safe (assq c sgml-public-transliterations)) psgml.el:408:and description will be transliterated according to the variable psgml.el:409:sgml-public-transliterations. If the file exists it will be the file psgml.el:459:(defvar sgml-public-transliterations '((? . ?_) (?/ . ?%)) psgml.el:460: "*Transliteration for characters that should be avoided in file names. grep finished (12 matches found) at Sat Jul 4 13:59:45 Apparently, sgml-public-transliterations does not handle ?:, since it's perfectly legal on UNIX (but not so on WindowsNT, UNC![1]). http://www.sil.org/sgml/sotr9401-a2.html states: .... In the interest of interoperability, this resolution does dictate that any storage object identifier that consists solely of alphanumeric characters, hyphen, period, and underscore must be treated as a file name (these are the characters in the POSIX portable file name character set.) Aforementioned URL also admits that .... This has lead to the propagation of both the dash and the colon in ISO owner identifiers. In the interests of interoperability, this SGML Open resolution requires that all products accept either form as a valid ISO owner identifier. Note, however, that this should not be construed to mean that a public identifier using one form should necessarily cause a catalog lookup match to succeed with a public identifier using the other form; while this resolution requires SGML systems to accept either form as valid, in practice, two entries (differing only by the single ":" or "-" character) may be needed in the catalog if both forms should refer to the same storage object identifier. I suggest that we just expand (defvar sgml-public-transliterations '((? . ?_) (?/ . ?%)) "*Transliteration for characters that should be avoided in file names. This is a list of dotted pairs (FROM . TO); where FROM is the the character to be translated to TO. This is used when parts of a public identifier are used to construct a file name.") into (defvar sgml-public-transliterations '((? . ?_) (?/ . ?%) (?: . ?-)) "*Transliteration for characters that should be avoided in file names. This is a list of dotted pairs (FROM . TO); where FROM is the the character to be translated to TO. This is used when parts of a public identifier are used to construct a file name.") and rename drwxr-xr-x 3 aichner stdsoft 512 Jan 26 05:37 ISO_8879:1986 to drwxr-xr-x 3 aichner stdsoft 512 Jan 26 05:37 ISO_8879-1986 under etc/psgml to make it legal for WindowsNT. Also, since etc/sgml has changed name to etc/psgml, the following occurences have to be reviewed: cd /export/home/tmp/packages-21.0/lisp/psgml/ egrep -ni '"sgml"' *.el /dev/null Compilation started at Sat Jul 4 14:14:31 1998 psgml-charent.el:40: (concat (locate-data-directory "sgml") "iso88591.map") psgml-html.el:248: ;; (add-submenu nil sgml-html-menu "SGML") psgml-html.el:251: (delete-menu-item '("SGML")))) psgml-parse.el:1976: (t "sgml")))))) psgml-parse.el:3509: '(("sgml" . sgml-do-sgml-declaration) psgml-parse.el:3536: (member tok '("sgml" "doctype"))) psgml.el:367: (locate-data-directory "sgml")) psgml.el:1004: '("SGML" psgml.el:1160: (setq mode-name "SGML") grep finished (10 matches found) at Sat Jul 4 14:14:33 I am sure we have to change (locate-data-directory "sgml") to (locate-data-directory "psgml") but maybe someone knowledgeable on the subject can make suggestions for the other grep-matches above. I'm willing to submit a patch if there's enough feedback to resolve the issues. Thanks, Adrian PS[2]: Has anybody got PSGML menus to actually insert text under XEmacs on Windows NT? I get all the context-sensitive HTML tag menus but they don't insert anything nor do they trigger any error. I suspect they use some mechanism completely un-inmplemented in XEmacs on Windows NT. sb> A Lisp stack backtrace will suffice. Footnotes: [1] Didn't that stand for Unix Non-Compliance? [2] Is there such a thing as a PS[2] in E-mail composition? -- Adrian Aichner Applications Engineer Teradyne GmbH Semiconductor Test Group Telephone +49/89/41861(0)-208 Dingolfinger Strasse 2 Fax +49/89/41861-217 D-81673 MUENCHEN E-mail aichner(a)ecf.teradyne.com

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Re: is the cvs server up? 25 years, 9 months

Adrian Aichner

>>>>> "Andy" == Andy Piper <andyp(a)parallax.co.uk> writes: Andy> I'm having trouble accessing it. Andy> andy Hi Andy, I was able to do this just now (times are DST MET): cd /export/home/tmp/CVSroot/xemacs-20/ cvs -n -q update Compilation started at Sat Jul 4 13:44:35 1998 ? config.status <lines deleted by Adrian> ? src/update-elc.stamp M lisp/package-get-base.el M lisp/site-start.el Compilation finished at Sat Jul 4 13:45:19 Regards, Adrian Andy> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andy> " .sigs are like your face - rarely seen by you and uglier than you think" Andy> Dr Andy Piper, Technical Architect, Parallax Solutions Ltd Andy> mail: andyp(a)parallax.co.uk web: www.parallax.co.uk/~andyp -- Adrian Aichner Applications Engineer Teradyne GmbH Semiconductor Test Group Telephone +49/89/41861(0)-208 Dingolfinger Strasse 2 Fax +49/89/41861-217 D-81673 MUENCHEN E-mail aichner(a)ecf.teradyne.com

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Re: is the cvs server up? 25 years, 9 months

Jareth Hein

Andy Piper <andyp(a)parallax.co.uk> writes: > I'm having trouble accessing it. Hmmm... works for me. What kind of trouble? -- Jareth Hein | jareth(a)camelot.co.jp | ハインジェラス Toolsmith & Program lead | http://www.camelot.co.jp | 開発部チーフ Camelot Software, Ltd. | |（株）キャメロット "It's a sad sign of the times when 'political machine' is redefined to include 'main-line battle tank'" - Ambassador Grossblunder

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is the cvs server up? 25 years, 9 months

Andy Piper

I'm having trouble accessing it. andy --------------------------------------------------------------------------- " .sigs are like your face - rarely seen by you and uglier than you think" Dr Andy Piper, Technical Architect, Parallax Solutions Ltd mail: andyp(a)parallax.co.uk web: www.parallax.co.uk/~andyp

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Where do you want to go tomorrow? 25 years, 9 months

SL Baur

XEmacs 21.0 is winding down to a close. The latest scheduled release date is (7/31[1]). Where do you want to go tomorrow? Ideally, XEmacs 21.1 is in feature freeze now. There are a ton of bugs to be fixed. It doesn't necessarily have to be the case, but it's just my feeling. I'm personally very pleased with XEmacs 21.0. It does just about everything I want it to do, and no more. One possible way is to split the development trees such that we have a rigidly controlled stable branch (21.x) and a no-holds-barred development tree. The biggest problem for a legacy app like Emacs is maintenance. There are plenty of areas where XEmacs shows its age. Two of which are in the character/line oriented (re)display and the non-standard Lisp extension language engine. I have tentatively approved Michael Sperber's plan for addressing Lisp Engine updates. As I understand it, it does not involve commitment to anything specific until all the issues have been hashed out. It will also involve an extended migration period of at least a year. I'm less worried about that (so long as there's consensus on where we're going) since the current development tree has been separated from the release tree for at least that long. My *only* goal at this point in time is to maintain the longevity and vitality of XEmacs. After we've hashed this out a bit I'll take the discussion to c.e.x. *All* input is welcome. Footnotes: [1] Bonus points for anyone who knows what the significance of that date is.

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Re: Where do you want to go tomorrow? 25 years, 9 months

William M. Perry

Kyle Jones <kyle_jones(a)wonderworks.com> writes: > Hrvoje Niksic writes: > > wmperry(a)aventail.com (William M. Perry) writes: > > > > > Andy Piper <andyp(a)parallax.co.uk> writes: > > > > > > > 1e) gif animation. > > > > > > Don't forget PNG animation. > > > > > > The module stuff needs to be spiffed into better shape as well, and > > > possibly move some things out into loadable modules. > > > > APAGE SATANA! > > Satanas luciferi excelsi. More seriously, I think we're OK so long as we > let users of the module systme know that they are on their own with > regard to any internal interfaces that they use. > > The main reason for letting people get at the module system if that > hopefully someone will write a Emacs-Lisp compiler and donate it. I > don't place a lot of value on handwritten modules. I don't see why it would be any less stable than any code written in C that is in the core XEmacs right now. -Bill P.

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Re: Where do you want to go tomorrow? 25 years, 9 months

Hrvoje Niksic

Kyle Jones <kyle_jones(a)wonderworks.com> writes: > Hrvoje Niksic writes: > > I'd have to learn Scheme to be able to contribute to such an > > XEmacs at all. > > I don't think so. I think the success or failure of whatever new > substrate gets added will depend on the quality of the Emacs-Lisp > emulation. Note that "I" in the quoted sense was not a general reference, but a reference to myself. If most/all the internals will be in Scheme, I will definitely have to learn it to hack the internals. Kind of like one needs to learn C if he wants to contribute to XEmacs internals. > As an example, since I support VM for GNU Emacs and XEmacs, and > since the code and comments weigh in at over 25000 lines at this > time, and since I only hack on it part-time, it is unlikely that I'm > going to be rewriting the whole thing in Scheme or Common Lisp or > anything else. Anything that introduces significant semantic > changes that require piles of old code to be rewritten is going to > be a non-starter. (Leaving aside things like emacs-lisp debuggers, > which are bound to be a total loss.) Also if applications run > miserably slowly under the emulated Emacs-Lisp then the users will > likely vote with their feet and use something else. > > So I think you'll be able to contribute for quite some time. The > last thing we want to do is scare off proven Emacs-Lisp contributors > for hypothetical Scheme or Common Lisp contributors. I think all of the members of this discussion agree with you on this, Kyle. I certainly do. -- Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic(a)srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia --------------------------------+-------------------------------- Call CIA and tell them that you have placed a bomb in a 7-11 shop! Be sure to let them trace you. Spend 10 years in jail and then regret it.

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XEmacs-Beta July 1998