December 2015 - XEmacs-Beta - XEmacs Mailing List Archives

GPLv3|L8R -- Status report - ready for inspection? 7 years, 5 months

Mats Lidell

Hi, Here comes yet another status report from the project of converting to GPLv3 or later. There are two lists of files below. The first list contains all files that are in an undecided state. Please inspect: Do we need to do anything with them. If so what? The second list contains all files that we can leave untouched and the reason for that. Please inspect: Are all reasons OK and correct? Are we getting close to the were an inspection of the xemacs-gplv3 repository could be performed? With the intent that it that is OK we could merge back to trunk and go GPLv3 or later? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "CHANGES-beta" "ChangeLog" "PROBLEMS" "README" "README.GPLv3" "etc/ChangeLog" "etc/Emacs.ad" "etc/InstallGuide" "etc/NEWS" "etc/ONEWS" "etc/OONEWS" "etc/README" "etc/editclient.sh" "etc/emacskeys.sco" "etc/emacsstrs.sco" "etc/gtkrc" "etc/package-index.LATEST.gpg" "etc/sample.Xresources" "etc/xemacs.1" "lib-src/ChangeLog" "lib-src/README" "lisp/ChangeLog" "lisp/README" "lisp/mule/mule-locale.txt" "man/ChangeLog" "man/README" "modules/ChangeLog" "modules/base64/Makefile" "modules/common/configure-post.ac" "modules/common/configure-pre.ac" "modules/zlib/Makefile" "nt/ChangeLog" "nt/Emacs.ad.h" "nt/Installation.el" "nt/README" "nt/Win32.cf" "nt/lisp.ico" "nt/site.def" "nt/xemacs.dsp" "nt/xemacs.dsw" "src/ChangeLog" "src/README" "src/README.kkcc" "src/m/README" "src/s/README" "src/s/freebsd.h" "src/s/irix6-0.h" "src/s/netbsd.h" "src/s/sol2.h" "tests/ChangeLog" "tests/Dnd/README" "tests/automated/README" "version.sh.in" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- These files below are the files that we might be able to leave as they are. The reason for why they need not to be changed is listed after each file: (Some reasons are taken verbatim from private communication or the "GPL version 3 source survey") ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "INSTALL" -> old FSF Documentation license "config.guess" -> Part of config which is still GPLv2 or later. See "http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/config" "config.sub" -> Part of config which is still GPLv2 or later. See "http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/config" "etc/ETAGS.ChangeLog" -> BSD and GPL v2 or later "etc/VEGETABLES" -> Not copyrightable. "etc/XKeysymDB" -> MIT "etc/ctags.1" -> Part of the etags distribution, which is not part of XEmacs. "etc/custom/example-themes/ex-custom-file" -> Generated(!?) or GPL V2 or later? "etc/etags.1" -> Part of the etags distribution, which is not part of XEmacs. "etc/gnuattach.1" -> simple man link to gnuserv.1 "etc/gnuclient.1" -> simple man link to gnuserv.1 "etc/gnudoit.1" -> simple man link to gnuserv.1 "etc/refcard.ps.gz" -> Generated from refcard..tex "etc/sample.Xdefaults" -> It is deprecated, so it can be removed but is only a three line reference to .Xresources "etc/xemacs-X.ico" -> GPLv2 or later but there is not meta data for the file where this can be documented. "info/dir" -> Generated(?) "install-sh" -> MIT-style "no advertising" license "lib-src/b2m.c" -> This is the version from GNU Emacs, so should be OK. "lib-src/config.values.in" -> Generated. "lib-src/emacs.csh" -> I don't think this even works with XEmacs ("emacsclient"), so I believe we can just delete it. "lib-src/insert-data-in-exec.c" -> Compatible license. "lib-src/mmencode.c" -> Compatible license. "lisp/dump-paths.el" -> Empty file. Not copyrightable. "lisp/term/bobcat.el" -> Emacs version has no explicit license declaration "lisp/term/vt102.el" -> Emacs version has no explicit license declaration "lisp/term/vt125.el" -> Emacs version has no explicit license declaration "lisp/term/vt200.el" -> Emacs version has no explicit license declaration "lisp/term/vt201.el" -> Emacs version has no explicit license declaration "lisp/term/vt220.el" -> Emacs version has no explicit license declaration "lisp/term/vt240.el" -> Emacs version has no explicit license declaration "lisp/term/vt300.el" -> Emacs version has no explicit license declaration "lisp/term/vt320.el" -> Emacs version has no explicit license declaration "lisp/term/vt400.el" -> Emacs version has no explicit license declaration "lisp/term/vt420.el" -> Emacs version has no explicit license declaration "lock/.precious" -> Not copyrightable. "modules/canna/install-sh" -> MIT "modules/ldap/install-sh" -> MIT "modules/postgresql/install-sh" -> MIT "modules/sample/external/install-sh" -> MIT "modules/sample/internal/install-sh" -> MIT "move-if-change" -> Identical to GPLv3 or later Emacs version "nt/Xmd.patch" -> GPLv2 or later but only a few lines "nt/file.ico" -> MIT "nt/minitar.c" -> Public domain "nt/paths.h" -> Generated "nt/xemacs.ico" -> GPLv2 or later but there is not meta data for the file where this can be documented. "src/alloca.c" -> Public domain. "src/depend" -> Generated "src/emacs-marshals.c" -> Generated. "src/emacs-widget-accessors.c" -> Generated. "src/intl-auto-encap-win32.c" -> Generated. "src/intl-auto-encap-win32.h" -> Generated. "src/libsst.c" -> Compatible license. "src/libsst.h" -> Compatible license. "src/libst.h" -> Compatible copyright. "src/linuxplay.c" -> Compatible license. (MIT-like) "src/miscplay.c" -> Compatible license. (MIT-like) "src/miscplay.h" -> Compatible license. (MIT-like) "src/nas.c" -> Compatible license. (MIT-like) "src/paths.h.in" -> Generated. "src/s/openbsd.h" -> Too short. (< 10 lines) "src/s/usg5-4-2.h" -> Too short. (< 10 lines) "src/sunplay.c" -> Compatible copyright. "tests/gtk/UNIMPLEMENTED" -> Does notes need a license? "tests/tooltalk/beeps.el" -> Too short. (< 10 lines) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Yours -- %% Mats _______________________________________________ XEmacs-Beta mailing list XEmacs-Beta(a)xemacs.org http://lists.xemacs.org/mailman/listinfo/xemacs-beta

4 participants
3 comments

Things I miss in GNU Emacs 8 years, 10 months

Michael Sperber

I appreciate everybody's input on the discussion on how to continue with the project. I personally would like to collect features that XEmacs has but GNU Emacs hasn't and see what the chances are of getting them included in GNU Emacs. So if you have such a list, or just random items, please send them to me or the list. FWIW, my list so far has this: User-visible features: - Ben's HTML mode - C-Left Mouse for pasting - minibuffer-confirm-incomplete - Marcus's incremental collector (slim chance ...) Internal features: - opaque datastructures for various things - keymaps - menus separate from keymaps - specifiers - extents - separate representations for chars and numbers -- Regards, Mike _______________________________________________ XEmacs-Beta mailing list XEmacs-Beta(a)xemacs.org http://lists.xemacs.org/mailman/listinfo/xemacs-beta

7 participants
12 comments

[gmane.emacs.devel, gmane.emacs.gnus.general, gmane.emacs.sxemacs.devel] Moving Gnus development to Emacs? 8 years, 10 months

Uwe Brauer

In case not everybody has noticed.

4 participants
6 comments

XEmacs at a crossroads 8 years, 10 months

Stephen J. Turnbull

To all XEmacs supporters and users: For the past decade, work on XEmacs has continued at a low level, and mostly not visible in user-level features. In the meantime, GNU Emacs has implemented almost all XEmacs features, and recently RMS has given the green light to some form of dynamic loading of machine code. At the same time, a number of features (jit-lock and lexical binding seem important) that XEmacs lacks, and would require substantial effort to port, have been implemented. After some discussion on the XEmacs-Review mailing list, we decided to open up a public discussion of the future of the XEmacs Project. Please direct followups to the XEmacs Beta mailing list (xemacs-beta(a)xemacs.org). Reply-To is set for your convenience. The present situation of the core developers who have responded is that the developers who have been the primary contributors of code currently have personal and professional commitments that prevent them from devoting enough time to XEmacs to implement the large features necessary for full compatibility with GNU Emacs for the foreseeable future. Those who have mostly contributed work on infrastructure generally don't have the skills or time to convert to heavy code contributors. The bottom line is that we can not at present promise full GNU Emacs compatibility in the foreseeable future. If you would prefer to use an editor with the most recent features, three core developers have ported personal configurations to GNU Emacs with little difficulty, and say they expect no loss of functionality in using GNU Emacs. For current XEmacs users, converting to GNU Emacs would offer access to a few popular packages not publicly available for XEmacs. I can mention nxhtml, org-mode[1] and magit[2] offhand. I think all the core developers expect many users to stick with XEmacs. Steve Youngs writes: "Everyone who either uses, or hacks on, XEmacs does so for a reason, and we do so by choice. There are probably as many reasons as there are XE users/devs, all I ask is that you don't take away the choice." I think all the core developers feel the same way. The reason this is coming up now is that several developers who have contributed heavily in the past have acknowledged that they *won't* be doing so for the foreseeable future. It's only fair that we let you, our users and supporters, know about that. We all do value XEmacs, its history, the codebase, and you, our community. We are sad that XEmacs has fallen so far out of competition with GNU Emacs, but it's time to admit that is the case, and think about what we want to do now. Several alternative paths have been suggested: 1. Close up shop and release the resources to other projects. 2. Close up shop and move en masse to GNU Emacs development. 3. Fork current GNU Emacs, and gradually recreate an XEmacs- flavored GNU-Emacs-compatible language and editor. 4. Maintain infrastructure as a "caretaker" project, for the benefit of continuing users, and in case somebody wants to pick up the ball. There is no consensus on closing up or on what to do if we did, and therefore options 1 and 2 are off the table. (Individual developers will (and should) do as they want, of course.) Option 3 has its attractions[3], but no commitment from developers with a history of substantial contributions of code. That leaves option 4, or maybe a new "option 5" if somebody has a good suggestion. For those who wish to continue using or developing XEmacs, we have commitments from at least two of the infrastructure contributors to provide minimal support for - mailing lists - tracker - website - source code repositories - package buildbot - binary packages While binary package releases will continue to be provided in "Pre-Releases", there are no plans yet for a full SUMO release. It's quite possible, but there are some resource details (space on the distribution site) to work out. We would like to hear your thoughts. If you have private patches you can contribute to XEmacs 21.5, please let us know about them. They can be integrated. XEmacs 21.4 is very near end-of-life, but Vin Shelton is still maintaining it. We thank you for your support and contributions over the years! With sincere regards from the XEmacs team, Steve XEmacs Beta Release Manager, for the XEmacs Reviewers Footnotes: [1] A couple of developers have private ports of org-mode, which may be made available in the future. [2] magit uses lexical binding, and so is likely to be difficult to port to XEmacs. [3] As well as the potential to upset a lot of people in the GNU Emacs community. _______________________________________________ XEmacs-Announce mailing list XEmacs-Announce(a)xemacs.org http://lists.xemacs.org/mailman/listinfo/xemacs-announce _______________________________________________ XEmacs-Beta mailing list XEmacs-Beta(a)xemacs.org http://lists.xemacs.org/mailman/listinfo/xemacs-beta

10 participants
17 comments

XEmacs support will be discontinued for new Tramp versions 8 years, 10 months

Michael Albinus

Hi, I have just merged the new Tramp 2.2.13 into the XEmacs package repository. This will be the last Tramp version with XEmacs support. The reason is, that there is no benefit to keep this compatibility in Tramp. All new features which have arrived in Tramp over the last 10 years are almost useless in XEmacs, because some of the underlying magic file name operations do not exist in XEmacs (for example process-file, start-file-process), or because needed GNU Emacs packages are not available for XEmaxs (for example, dbus.el). Most of XEmacs users won't notice this stopped support, I guess. I'm willing to support Tramp 2.2.13 in the XEmacs repository in case of serious problems. And I will also keep the separate remote file name syntax ("/method:user＠host:" vs "/[method/user＠host]") in Tramp. If you ever use GNU Emacs, set `tramp-syntax' to `sep', and you should get the syntax you're used to. Best regards, Michael. _______________________________________________ XEmacs-Beta mailing list XEmacs-Beta(a)xemacs.org http://lists.xemacs.org/mailman/listinfo/xemacs-beta

3 participants
5 comments

Summary of XEmacs Issue Tracking System Issues 8 years, 11 months

XEmacs Issue Tracking System

ACTIVITY SUMMARY (2015-12-22 - 2015-12-29) XEmacs Issue Tracking System at http://tracker.xemacs.org/XEmacs/its/ To view or respond to any of the issues listed below, click on the issue number. Do NOT respond to this message. 573 open ( +0) / 319 closed ( +0) / 892 total ( +0) Open issues with patches: 13 Average duration of open issues: 2285 days. Median duration of open issues: 2482 days. Open Issues Breakdown new 265 ( +0) deferred 6 ( +0) napping 3 ( +0) verified 58 ( +0) assigned 145 ( +0) committed 19 ( +0) documented 3 ( +0) done/needs work 15 ( +0) _______________________________________________ XEmacs-Beta mailing list XEmacs-Beta(a)xemacs.org http://lists.xemacs.org/mailman/listinfo/xemacs-beta

1 participants
0 comments

Summary of XEmacs Issue Tracking System Issues 8 years, 11 months

XEmacs Issue Tracking System

ACTIVITY SUMMARY (2015-12-15 - 2015-12-22) XEmacs Issue Tracking System at http://tracker.xemacs.org/XEmacs/its/ To view or respond to any of the issues listed below, click on the issue number. Do NOT respond to this message. 573 open ( +0) / 319 closed ( +0) / 892 total ( +0) Open issues with patches: 13 Average duration of open issues: 2278 days. Median duration of open issues: 2475 days. Open Issues Breakdown new 265 ( +0) deferred 6 ( +0) napping 3 ( +0) verified 58 ( +0) assigned 145 ( +0) committed 19 ( +0) documented 3 ( +0) done/needs work 15 ( +0) _______________________________________________ XEmacs-Beta mailing list XEmacs-Beta(a)xemacs.org http://lists.xemacs.org/mailman/listinfo/xemacs-beta

1 participants
0 comments

Summary of XEmacs Issue Tracking System Issues 8 years, 11 months

XEmacs Issue Tracking System

ACTIVITY SUMMARY (2015-12-08 - 2015-12-15) XEmacs Issue Tracking System at http://tracker.xemacs.org/XEmacs/its/ To view or respond to any of the issues listed below, click on the issue number. Do NOT respond to this message. 573 open ( +0) / 319 closed ( +0) / 892 total ( +0) Open issues with patches: 13 Average duration of open issues: 2271 days. Median duration of open issues: 2468 days. Open Issues Breakdown new 265 ( +0) deferred 6 ( +0) napping 3 ( +0) verified 58 ( +0) assigned 145 ( +0) committed 19 ( +0) documented 3 ( +0) done/needs work 15 ( +0) _______________________________________________ XEmacs-Beta mailing list XEmacs-Beta(a)xemacs.org http://lists.xemacs.org/mailman/listinfo/xemacs-beta

1 participants
0 comments

Re: XEmacs at a crossroads 8 years, 11 months

Stephen J. Turnbull

Mats Lidell writes: > That could mean: Thanks for the suggestions, but I've already been through most of these, and for most there are technical reasons for not doing them (I could explain if you want). Some of your ideas are more directed at improving the project than at reducing maintenance cost and I'd like to highlight those. > - even move over to use pull requests at bitbucket? Pull requests are worth discussing, since that would represent a modernization of our workflows, and might make it easier to contribute. > - Drop the buildbots. With no or few commits coming it is not > worth the time and resources spent maintaining them. Up to you, that's work you've been doing. But I regularly see buildbot posts for the packages. > - Replace the old web pages with a simple static website on > bitbucket. For practical purposes that's what we already have. > This will remove in one stroke a lot of info that is aged and > wrong. Just supply the very necessary information possibly by > lifting over the valuable pages from the old web. The effort is in choosing "valuable". It would be just as easy to create an "unmaintained and likely inaccurate hierarchy" on the current site and move unreliable pages into that. (I propose "HereBeDragons" for the name of the top directory of that hierarchy. ;-) > - Stop providing binary packages. They can be built from > source. The storage problem is removed and with no activity > there will hardly be any releases after all. Storage is a one-off; I don't think it's difficult to fix. The bigger issues are domain-maintenance things like DNS, which I really need to get off of Tux. Sandy W. is still handling the registrar stuff. BTW, there is hardly "no activity" in packages. In fact people are committing to packages quite regularly. > - Don't know what to do with the tracker. It could be moved into > the bitbucket issue tracker but I fear that will be much work > and we will loose info. Maybe if can be dumped in some format > for reference and new issues handled at bitbucket. The tracker is actually zero-maintenance, and I use it. I could check the access log if you like. _______________________________________________ XEmacs-Beta mailing list XEmacs-Beta(a)xemacs.org http://lists.xemacs.org/mailman/listinfo/xemacs-beta

2 participants
1 comments

Summary of XEmacs Issue Tracking System Issues 8 years, 11 months

XEmacs Issue Tracking System

ACTIVITY SUMMARY (2015-12-01 - 2015-12-08) XEmacs Issue Tracking System at http://tracker.xemacs.org/XEmacs/its/ To view or respond to any of the issues listed below, click on the issue number. Do NOT respond to this message. 573 open ( +0) / 319 closed ( +0) / 892 total ( +0) Open issues with patches: 13 Average duration of open issues: 2264 days. Median duration of open issues: 2461 days. Open Issues Breakdown new 265 ( +0) deferred 6 ( +0) napping 3 ( +0) verified 58 ( +0) assigned 145 ( +0) committed 19 ( +0) documented 3 ( +0) done/needs work 15 ( +0) _______________________________________________ XEmacs-Beta mailing list XEmacs-Beta(a)xemacs.org http://lists.xemacs.org/mailman/listinfo/xemacs-beta

1 participants
0 comments

2024

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

2007

2006

2005

2004

2003

2002

2001

2000

1999

1998

XEmacs-Beta December 2015