August 2000 - XEmacs-Beta - XEmacs Mailing List Archives

Re: PSGML mode should not override 'M-BS'. 25 years

Dan Holmsand

Raymond Toy <toy(a)rtp.ericsson.se> writes: > >>>>> "Gunnar" == Gunnar Evermann <ge204(a)eng.cam.ac.uk> writes: > > Gunnar> giacomo boffi <giacomo.boffi(a)polimi.it> writes: > >> Daniel Pittman writes: > >> > The new PSGML mode has, in it's keymap, one stunningly counter-intuitive > >> > binding[1]. > >> > > >> > The Sequence Meta-BackSpace is bound to `sgml-mark-current-element', > >> > rather than the standard `backward-kill-word'. This caused me some pain > >> > until I went and fixed it. > >> > >> fortran mode too, if i can remember exactly... > > Gunnar> so does bibtex.el. > > Gunnar> Is there consensus that we should disable these bindings? > > Gunnar> They are certainly driving me mad. > > I have the same problem. I hate it. I want M-backspace (in Fortran > mode at least) to kill word just like it does everywhere else! (But > perhaps this is a bug created when the great Backspace vs Delete > change took place and Fortran was forgotten? I know that Fortran mode > used to work correctly.) I don't know if it's a bug or a feature - but this is all because XEmacs works differently from fsfmacs. Fortran-mode etc all define "\e\C-h" in a local keymap, which on XEmacs overrides both M-backspace and C-M-h. On fsfmacs it only overrides C-M-h (the intended behaviour). That means that you have to re-assign backward-kill-word explicitly to M-BS if you also define C-M-h. /dan -- Dan Ola Holmsand Innehållsbolaget dan(a)innehall.com

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Re: PSGML mode should not override 'M-BS'. 25 years

Raymond Toy

>>>>> "Gunnar" == Gunnar Evermann <ge204(a)eng.cam.ac.uk> writes: Gunnar> giacomo boffi <giacomo.boffi(a)polimi.it> writes: >> Daniel Pittman writes: >> > The new PSGML mode has, in it's keymap, one stunningly counter-intuitive >> > binding[1]. >> > >> > The Sequence Meta-BackSpace is bound to `sgml-mark-current-element', >> > rather than the standard `backward-kill-word'. This caused me some pain >> > until I went and fixed it. >> >> fortran mode too, if i can remember exactly... Gunnar> so does bibtex.el. Gunnar> Is there consensus that we should disable these bindings? Gunnar> They are certainly driving me mad. I have the same problem. I hate it. I want M-backspace (in Fortran mode at least) to kill word just like it does everywhere else! (But perhaps this is a bug created when the great Backspace vs Delete change took place and Fortran was forgotten? I know that Fortran mode used to work correctly.) Ray

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Re: Gnus 5.8.7 packaged (TEST!) 25 years

Adrian Aichner

>>>>> "Gunnar" == Gunnar Evermann <ge204(a)eng.cam.ac.uk> writes: Gunnar> Andreas Jaeger <aj(a)suse.de> writes: >> I've uploaded a test package of Gnus 5.8.7 to >> ftp.xemacs.org/pub/xemacs/beta/incoming. >> >> The package had no testing at all, use it at your own risk and send me >> all problems. >> >> I'm keeping the version on a separate CVS branch (gnus-5_8-branch) for >> a while. Gunnar> I think this is fit for general release now. I have been Gunnar> using this package for a month without any problems. Mee too. Works great. Gunnar> Gunnar

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Re: "Auto-righteousness" [was: PSGML mode should not override 'M-BS'.] 25 years

Adrian Aichner

>>>>> "Stephen" == Stephen J Turnbull <turnbull(a)sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> writes: >>>>> "Daniel" == Daniel Pittman <daniel(a)danann.net> writes (on XEmacs Stephen> Patches): Daniel> The new PSGML mode has, in it's keymap, one stunningly Daniel> counter-intuitive binding[1]. Stephen> PSGML does this a lot, IMHO, but this one deserves Stephen> "stunningly". The new PCL-CVS did that too. I hate it when key-bindings are changed in mature soaftware packages. Daniel> The Sequence Meta-BackSpace is bound to Daniel> `sgml-mark-current-element', rather than the standard Daniel> `backward-kill-word'. This caused me some pain until I Daniel> went and fixed it. Stephen> ... and submitted a patch so the rest of us can benefit. Stephen> Thanks! Stephen> Sill, we need to have a way to deal with these things in Stephen> a common way. I really dislike changing the upstream I submitted a bug report for PCL-CVS "upstream" and haven't heard back. Stephen> source for anything but outright bugs that disable Stephen> functionality or cause data loss. Just as we have Stephen> "auto-autoloads" for every package, we ought to have an Stephen> "auto-righteousness" mechanism that leaves the upstream Stephen> package's design idiocies in place and corrects them in a Stephen> documented way. Stephen> In this case I expect near-unanimity, but in many cases Stephen> the line between genius and idiocy is rather debatable. Stephen> -- Stephen> University of Tsukuba Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN Stephen> Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences Tel/fax: +81 (298) 53-5091 Stephen> _________________ _________________ _________________ _________________ Stephen> What are those straight lines for? "XEmacs rules."

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Re: Gnus 5.8.7 packaged (TEST!) 25 years

Gunnar Evermann

Andreas Jaeger <aj(a)suse.de> writes: > I've uploaded a test package of Gnus 5.8.7 to > ftp.xemacs.org/pub/xemacs/beta/incoming. > > The package had no testing at all, use it at your own risk and send me > all problems. > > I'm keeping the version on a separate CVS branch (gnus-5_8-branch) for > a while. I think this is fit for general release now. I have been using this package for a month without any problems. Gunnar

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Re: PSGML mode should not override 'M-BS'. 25 years

Gunnar Evermann

giacomo boffi <giacomo.boffi(a)polimi.it> writes: > Daniel Pittman writes: > > The new PSGML mode has, in it's keymap, one stunningly counter-intuitive > > binding[1]. > > > > The Sequence Meta-BackSpace is bound to `sgml-mark-current-element', > > rather than the standard `backward-kill-word'. This caused me some pain > > until I went and fixed it. > > fortran mode too, if i can remember exactly... so does bibtex.el. Is there consensus that we should disable these bindings? They are certainly driving me mad. Gunnar

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Re: "Auto-righteousness" [was: PSGML mode should not override 'M-BS'.] 25 years

Daniel Pittman

On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, Stephen J. Turnbull <turnbull(a)sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> wrote: >>>>>> "Daniel" == Daniel Pittman <daniel(a)danann.net> writes (on XEmacs > Patches): > > Daniel> The new PSGML mode has, in it's keymap, one stunningly > Daniel> counter-intuitive binding[1]. > > PSGML does this a lot, IMHO, but this one deserves "stunningly". The tenth time in a row I did it, yes. :) [...] > ... and submitted a patch so the rest of us can benefit. Thanks! That's what this whole thing is about, right? Besides, the rest of you have done so much stuff that /I/ benefit from. :) [...] > In this case I expect near-unanimity, but in many cases the line > between genius and idiocy is rather debatable. I completely agree. Worse still, it varies not only by package but by user: what is intuitive to me may not be to you, and vice-versa. *shrug* Daniel -- When you steal from one author, it's plagiarism; if you steal from many, it's research. -- Wilson Mizner

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PSGML mode should not override 'M-BS'. 25 years

Giacomo Boffi

Daniel Pittman writes: > The new PSGML mode has, in it's keymap, one stunningly counter-intuitive > binding[1]. > > The Sequence Meta-BackSpace is bound to `sgml-mark-current-element', > rather than the standard `backward-kill-word'. This caused me some pain > until I went and fixed it. fortran mode too, if i can remember exactly...

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"Auto-righteousness" [was: PSGML mode should not override 'M-BS'.] 25 years

Stephen J. Turnbull

>>>>> "Daniel" == Daniel Pittman <daniel(a)danann.net> writes (on XEmacs Patches): Daniel> The new PSGML mode has, in it's keymap, one stunningly Daniel> counter-intuitive binding[1]. PSGML does this a lot, IMHO, but this one deserves "stunningly". Daniel> The Sequence Meta-BackSpace is bound to Daniel> `sgml-mark-current-element', rather than the standard Daniel> `backward-kill-word'. This caused me some pain until I Daniel> went and fixed it. ... and submitted a patch so the rest of us can benefit. Thanks! Sill, we need to have a way to deal with these things in a common way. I really dislike changing the upstream source for anything but outright bugs that disable functionality or cause data loss. Just as we have "auto-autoloads" for every package, we ought to have an "auto-righteousness" mechanism that leaves the upstream package's design idiocies in place and corrects them in a documented way. In this case I expect near-unanimity, but in many cases the line between genius and idiocy is rather debatable. -- University of Tsukuba Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences Tel/fax: +81 (298) 53-5091 _________________ _________________ _________________ _________________ What are those straight lines for? "XEmacs rules."

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Re: pcl-cvs requires mule 25 years

Steve Youngs

* Andreas Jaeger <aj(a)suse.de> writes: >>>>>> Martin Buchholz writes: >> Yes. Andreas has announced that he won't have as much time for >> maintaining xemacs-packages as we likes, so his job is available for >> any interested volunteer. > Yes, unfortunatly I'm busy with other stuff. Got it covered. :) -- |---<Regards, Steve Youngs>-----------[GnuPG KeyID: EFD82ED2]---| | It's a funny thing about life; if you refuse to accept | | anything but the best, you very often get it | |-----------------------------<mailto:youngs_s＠ozlinx.com.au>---|

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XEmacs-Beta August 2000