June 1998 - XEmacs-Beta - XEmacs Mailing List Archives

Re: column number starts at 1 or 0? 26 years, 5 months

Hrvoje Niksic

Martin Buchholz <martin(a)xemacs.org> writes: > xemacs -vanilla > M-x column-number-mode > M-x what-cursor-position > > The above two disagree on whether beginning-of-line is column 0 or 1. > Why this inconsistency? This has been discussed a few months ago on comp.emacs.xemacs. Some thoughts: * It is logical for column-number-mode to count columns starting from 1, because that is the way lines are counted by line-number-mode. It was plain silly in older XEmacsen to press M-< and find yourself on "line 1, column 0". * what-cursor-position displays column numbers starting from 0 because of the long history of doing so, and consistency with `current-column' (the latter not being eligible to change because of Lisp incompatibility the change would cause). When the `column-number-start-at-one' feature was added, it was deemed "safe" to change the relatively new modeline feature and leave the old function alone. In a way, I approve of this conservative choice. So column-number-mode needs to be consistent with two contradictory things, which is impossible. I think we should make `what-cursor-position' respect `column-number-start-at-one' variable. -- Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic(a)srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia --------------------------------+-------------------------------- "A Real Programmer's code can awe with its fiendish brilliance, even as its crockishness appalls."

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Lispref TeXinfo broken 26 years, 5 months

Gunnar Evermann

'make lispref.dvi' breaks (no I don't want to sacrifice a whole tree printing all that...) --------- evermann＠nats7:/data/source/gunnar/xemacs-20/man/lispref$ make lispref.dvi [snip] tex lispref.texi This is TeX, Version 3.14159 (C version 6.1) (lispref.texi Babel <v3.6h> and hyphenation patterns for american, german, loaded. (../texinfo.tex Loading texinfo package [Version 1.4]: Basics, fonts, page headings, tables, indexing, sectioning, toc printing, environments, defuns, cross reference, (/opt/teTeX/texmf/tex/generic/dvips/epsf.tex) and turning on texinfo input format.) (lispref.aux ! Undefined control sequence. <argument> Drag＠n ＠Drop -title ＠xrdef ...＠'=＠other ＠expandafter ＠gdef ＠csname X#1 ＠endcsname {#2}} l.1054 'xrdef {Drag'n'Drop-title}{Drag'n'Drop} ? --------- Apparently texinfo uses the quote as an active char in TeX and therefore barfs on the nodename Drag'n'Drop. Gunnar -- Gunnar Evermann Natural Language Systems Group, University of Hamburg EMail: Gunnar.Evermann(a)nats.informatik.uni-hamburg.de

2 participants
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Re: toolkit wars again 26 years, 5 months

Didier Verna

Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic(a)srce.hr> writes: > Qt is out, because it's C++ and because it's not free. BTW, what are exactly the arguments against using C++ code ?

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Re: Bug when selecting TTY frames 26 years, 5 months

Greg Klanderman

>>>>> "Colin" == Colin Rafferty <craffert(a)ms.com> writes: Colin> Colin> Greg Klanderman writes: >>>>>>> "Hrvoje" == Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic(a)srce.hr> writes: Hrvoje> Hrvoje> The selection of TTY frames has broken somewhere along the lines. To Hrvoje> repeat: Hrvoje> Hrvoje> $ xemacs -nw -q Hrvoje> C-x 5 2 ; to create and select a new frame Hrvoje> M-: (select-frame (next-frame)) ; select the original frame Hrvoje> Hrvoje> For me, this creates a strange effect where keyboard "focus" goes to Hrvoje> the other frame, but it is not redisplayed. Colin> >> yup :-( >> >> Do you know for sure that this used to work? Colin> Colin> I can tell you right now that it has the same (incorrect?) effect Colin> under 20.4. Colin> Colin> Unless this was fixed, and then broken, it has always been this way Colin> (as far as I can tell). Ah yes, of course. I didn't change anything about the behavior when focus-follows-mouse is nil. Hmm the behavior seems identically broken regardless of the value of f-f-m. Will have a look. thanks for testing and jogging my memory, Colin! greg

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A Forward from Kalle Dalheimer [ograf@fga.de: Re: Project ideas] 26 years, 5 months

Stefanie Teufel

Huhu dear XEmacs-Developers, I'm in close contact to Kalle form the KDE-Porject and informed him about the discussion which is going on at moment about the qt-Subject et al. He asked me to send you this forward. Stefanie ----- Forwarded message from Kalle Dalheimer <kalle(a)dalheimer.hh.eunet.de> ----- From: Kalle Dalheimer <kalle(a)dalheimer.hh.eunet.de> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 21:33:37 +0200 (CEST) To: Stefanie Teufel <s.teufel(a)ndh.net> Subject: Re: [ograf(a)fga.de: Re: Projects ideas] X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by public.ndh.com id UAA12352 > wmperry(a)aventail.com (William M. Perry) writes: > > > > - Gnome and/or KDE integration > > > > It's a fundamental flaw in their design if they cannot deal with > > applications that are not written using their specific toolkit. Not having > > session management in kwm just because XEmacs doesn't use Qt is really > > lame. Or has that been fixed? >From the very first implementation of session management, kwm contained a session management proxy for applications that don't support the X11R6 session management protocol. > Nope. And I won't do it, cause I had epileptic seizures after I browsed the > source of KDE (and part of the Qt docu) in search of their DnD protocol (they > use a version 0 OffiX). But this might come from my natural aversion against > code written is this language. > > I want KDE to do DnD with XEmacs (who knows OffiX already), but KDE can't find > the window of XEmacs, cause Qt hides the windows from KDE (in QMouse events) > and so it has to do the search on it's own... (same problem as the session > stuff, kwm does not know XEmacs). You can get easily at the X window by calling winId() on the QWidget. Feel free to ask me anything about Qt you might need to know. Kalle -- Kalle Dalheimer Contract programming for Unix kalle(a)dalheimer.hh.eunet.de Technical writing kalle(a)kde.org Technical editing kalle(a)oreilly.de KDE Developer (MFCH) mdalheimer(a)acm.org It's open, it's source, it runs - must be KDE! ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Happiness=\int_{birth}^{death}|Life|dt

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Re: Lispref TeXinfo broken 26 years, 5 months

Oliver Graf

Gunnar Evermann <Gunnar.Evermann(a)nats.informatik.uni-hamburg.de> writes: > <argument> Drag＠n > ＠Drop -title > ＠xrdef ...＠'=＠other ＠expandafter ＠gdef ＠csname X#1 > ＠endcsname {#2}} > l.1054 'xrdef {Drag'n'Drop-title}{Drag'n'Drop} > > Apparently texinfo uses the quote as an active char in TeX and > therefore barfs on the nodename Drag'n'Drop. I'm guilty if it says DnD! Are the quotes evil? for me [back to a terminal] err well, I should know TeX... I will send a patch. Regards, Oliver.

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what mode for debugging with gdb? 26 years, 5 months

Gunnar Evermann

Hi, recently I've been using XEmacs to debug some C-Code (XEmacs itself and other stuff) together with the SUN Workshop and while not perfect it still is rather nice. Now, when I do not have a SUN around I do debugging on Linux with gdb. But here I found the XEmacs integration far from 'nice'. I used gdb-mode and tried gdb-highlight and gdbsrc. I can only agree with jwz's comments about gdbsrc -- it really sucks, while the concept is cool. In the next couple of weeks I will try to put together *one* mode that supports all of the features of the three and (hopefully) some of the workshop things (like annotations in the source and so on). Before starting to hack (OK, I already have :-)) I'd like to know if there are other modes I've missed. e.g. is this gud-thing supposed to be the future (at least in GNU Emacs) and what is the problem with it? I think an excellent debugging mode would be a major argument for using XEmacs. All the serious C-Hackers around here (some of which formerly only used vi and gdb in an xterm) have been converted to using XEmacs with the workshop integration. :-) So if you have any ideas or wishes (see gdb-highlight for jamie's thoughts -- most of which I agree with) send me a mail. Gunnar -- Gunnar Evermann Natural Language Systems Group, University of Hamburg EMail: Gunnar.Evermann(a)nats.informatik.uni-hamburg.de

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Re: Projects ideas 26 years, 5 months

William M. Perry

Kyle Jones <kyle_jones(a)wonderworks.com> writes: > I'm not sure what themeable widget elements are, but if it's anything > like color schemes under Windows, it's nothing to sweat over. Serious fluff. It's pretty close to the color schemes, but some toolkits take it even further and allow pixmaps as backgrounds, etc. I'm donating the sysdll.* stuff to the GTK+ people because they actually want to go even further than that and have an interface to actually _draw_ the widgets differently based upon a DLL. So if you configured gtk to load 'next_drawable.so', all your widgets would look nexty, in all applications, etc. Kinda cool, but whether that is worth the time, I dunno. :) -Bill P.

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Re: Projects ideas 26 years, 5 months

William M. Perry

Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic(a)srce.hr> writes: > wmperry(a)aventail.com (William M. Perry) writes: > > > Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic(a)srce.hr> writes: > > > > > wmperry(a)aventail.com (William M. Perry) writes: > > > > > > > But then everyone's time is their own to hack what they wish. I'll > > > > be doing the module support again soon, even if nobody every wants > > > > to use it but me. :) > > > > > > Module support is **dangerous**. Beware! > > > > So is executing elisp. :) > > That's not what I meant. I'm not a security freak. > > What I meant was that announcing module support has potentially > far-reaching ramifications that we don't really appreciate at this time. Oh, you mean including it in the 21.0 release announcement? Yeah, that would be bad, considering the doc strings get lost, there is no support for autoloading them, etc, etc. That's the stuff I want to hack on for 21.1 as soon as we fork the tree. -Bill P.

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Re: Bug when selecting TTY frames 26 years, 5 months

Greg Klanderman

>>>>> "Hrvoje" == Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic(a)srce.hr> writes: Hrvoje> Hrvoje> The selection of TTY frames has broken somewhere along the lines. To Hrvoje> repeat: Hrvoje> Hrvoje> $ xemacs -nw -q Hrvoje> C-x 5 2 ; to create and select a new frame Hrvoje> M-: (select-frame (next-frame)) ; select the original frame Hrvoje> Hrvoje> For me, this creates a strange effect where keyboard "focus" goes to Hrvoje> the other frame, but it is not redisplayed. yup :-( Do you know for sure that this used to work? Hrvoje> This is not only Hrvoje> obviously wrong, but in discordance with the documentation, that says: Hrvoje> Hrvoje> Lisp programs can switch frames "temporarily" by calling the Hrvoje> function `select-frame'. This does not override the window manager; Hrvoje> rather, it escapes from the window manager's control until that control Hrvoje> is somehow reasserted. Hrvoje> Hrvoje> When using a text-only terminal, there is no window manager; Hrvoje> therefore, `select-frame' is the only way to switch frames, and the Hrvoje> effect lasts until overridden by a subsequent call to `select-frame'. Hrvoje> Only the selected terminal frame is actually displayed on the terminal. Hrvoje> Each terminal screen except for the initial one has a number, and the Hrvoje> number of the selected frame appears in the mode line after the word Hrvoje> `XEmacs' (*note Modeline Variables::.). Is this second paragraph what you'd want? I would think you should have to use focus-frame/other-frame to permanently change the frame, and that select-frame should revert to the original frame as under X? Or should focus-follows-mouse apply only to X consoles? If so then how should select-frame work when switching between X and tty frames? Hrvoje> I believe this has been broken by Greg's recent changes to Hrvoje> select-frame mechanism. Probably... I'll do some investigating. Funny, this is similar to the bug that existed under X before my changes! greg

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XEmacs-Beta June 1998