Jason Spiro writes: The GFDL is problematic for us (we can't combine our existing material with GFDL'd documentation). We may or may not want to ship it as part of XEmacs proper. It may be preferable to put it in a package. _______________________________________________ XEmacs-Beta mailing list XEmacs-Beta(a)xemacs.org http://calypso.tux.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xemacs-beta

Jason Spiro writes: I think you underestimate the power of XEmacs. OpenDocument files are xml, no? So it would not be hard to extract relevant parts from those files and put them into manuals or docstrings, or vice versa. Vice versa is actually more likely, since we would presumably wish to include XEmacs-specific changes. But it is problematic because we don't have the option of multiple licensing ourselves; the FSF has been unhelpful, and in any case with very diffuse ownership getting the necessary permissions to relicense is generally a very uncertain process. For this reason, we may want to distribute them separately simply to make the point that the license is incompatible. This doesn't prevent the package from hooking in to the menus and so on, it just means that a certain subset of users (namely, those who don't use the full set of packages for some reason) would have to go to extra effort to get the fancy tutorial. The problem is not the author's license, really. It's ours. Of course multiple licensing would be desirable from our point of view, but it's still not enough to guarantee inclusion in the core distribution, because of the problem that copying XEmacs-specific material from the core into the new tutorial would force a particular license. For multiple licensing to be maximally useful to us, we need both the GPL and the unnamed XEmacs documentation license (ie, the one we inherited from GNU Emacs 19, which is similar in intent to the GFDL, but legally incompatible in both directions with it because of the anti-DRM clause for one). The latter license is found in the header of XEmacs Texinfo source files. _______________________________________________ XEmacs-Beta mailing list XEmacs-Beta(a)xemacs.org http://calypso.tux.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xemacs-beta

* Jason Spiro <jasonspiro3(a)gmail.com&gt; writes: No, it's bad because it is so graphical. To get the full "experience" From it you have to switch to another app to view it. It's also bad because it isn't "hands-on", to try out what this tutorial is talking about you have to switch back to XEmacs, then you flip/flop back and forth between XEmacs and OpenOffice. The current text-only tutorial that ships with XEmacs is right there in a buffer. Right where you need it. Right where you can try out the cool things the tutorial is teaching you. Find a way to have the "look" of the graphical one in a XEmacs buffer that lets you practice what you are learning and then you'll be on to something. -- |---<Steve Youngs>---------------<GnuPG KeyID: A94B3003>---| | SXEmacs - The only _______ you'll ever need. | | Fill in the blank, yes, it's THAT good! | |------------------------------------&lt;steve(a)sxemacs.org&gt;---| _______________________________________________ XEmacs-Beta mailing list XEmacs-Beta(a)xemacs.org http://calypso.tux.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xemacs-beta

"Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen(a)xemacs.org&gt; writes: My own opinion is that as a tutorial, something like that would better sit within XEmacs or Emacs itself. After all, the latter are perfectly capable of image display. Peppering the tutorial with depictions of opening menus (or being able to open the actual menus in an autoanimated way for demonstrative purposes) would seem to offer a lot more in the way of interactivity. Another, not even requiring graphical support, would be animated demonstrations of the effects of editing. In a completely different vein, it would be nice to be able to dump the menu structure of Emacs/XEmacs into HTML and/or JavaScript so that people might explore the menus (even without being able to actually use them except for possibly implemented gimmicks) on HTML pages and/or PDF documents. For illustrations, this sort of off-Emacs demo is quite nice, but I don't think it is a good tool for use from inside Emacs. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum _______________________________________________ XEmacs-Beta mailing list XEmacs-Beta(a)xemacs.org http://calypso.tux.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xemacs-beta

2007/2/27, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen(a)xemacs.org&gt;: Sorry, I don't know enough Lisp. But I just wanted to suggest 2 things: 1. Perhaps you could add a link to the Emacs reference card to the Help menu too. 2. What would be a good name for the menu command (and for the MIT slides)? I propose "Quick Tour". -- Jason Spiro: computer consulting with a smile. I also provide training and spyware removal services for homes and businesses. Call or email for a FREE 5-minute consultation. Satisfaction guaranteed. +1 (416) 781-5938 / Email: info(a)jspiro.com / MSN: jasonspiro(a)hotmail.com _______________________________________________ XEmacs-Beta mailing list XEmacs-Beta(a)xemacs.org http://calypso.tux.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xemacs-beta

Jason Spiro writes: No. The default installer on Windows will probably include it for initial installs, but it won't be included in source distributions of the core, and of course packagers like Cygwin and Debian will almost certainly split it out into a separate .deb or .rpm in any case. It's also technically difficult to do this in a sane way for source distributions at this point. _______________________________________________ XEmacs-Beta mailing list XEmacs-Beta(a)xemacs.org http://calypso.tux.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xemacs-beta