6:25 a.m.
Apparently, it is legal under Islamic law to divorce by email. See
the contained URL for details. Of course, automating this is
something we must have in XEmacs.
10:46 p.m.
|--==> "SB" == SL Baur <steve(a)bsd2.kbnes.nec.co.jp> writes:
SB> Of course, automating this is something we must have in XEmacs.
You have got to be kidding. You're going to have a very hard time
convincing me to include it in the packages.
--
|---<Steve Youngs>---------------<GnuPG KeyID: 10D5C9C5>---|
| XEmacs - It's not just an editor. |
| It's a way of life. |
|------------------------------------<youngs(a)xemacs.org>---|
12:52 a.m.
2002 4月 10 水曜日 06:46、Steve Youngs さんは書きました:
|--==> "SB" == SL Baur
<steve(a)bsd2.kbnes.nec.co.jp> writes:
SB> Of course, automating this is something we must have in
SB> XEmacs.
You have got to be kidding. You're going to have a very hard
time convincing me to include it in the packages.
No, I'm not kidding. Please, please, pretty please. O-negai.
How can we possibly stake our claim as the kitchen sink editor if
divorce by email exists and we don't support it? We'll be the
*first* to support it automatically and that's what packages are
all about -- if you don't want it, don't load it.
1:39 a.m.
SL Baur writes:
No, I'm not kidding. Please, please, pretty please. O-negai.
How can we possibly stake our claim as the kitchen sink editor if
divorce by email exists and we don't support it? We'll be the
*first* to support it automatically and that's what packages are
all about -- if you don't want it, don't load it.
There are an awful lot of useful goodies out there in Elisp-land. I'm
thinking of things like globrep.el, follow.el, auto-revert.el, etc.
All of these things would be sensible candidates for the package
system, because they are all things that are potentially useful.
Even the eperiodic.el thingy `that got mentioned on the list today.
If we packaged "eperiodic" with XEmacs, we'd be the first editor
(AFAICT) that had support for a built-in periodic table. We *could*
be the first to have that feature but does that mean that we *should*?
I can't imagine anyone ever availing themselves of divorce.el. I'd
bet good money that the intersection of the sets "xemacs users",
"people living in countries where divorce by email is legal", and
"people who are actually looking to get a divorce" is the empty set!
It may be a tiny bit funny as a joke, but I hope that good sense
prevails and it doesn't make it's way into the packages.
We've got a busted etags.el, screwed-up syntax tables, coding-system
confusion, funky buffer-tabs, a semi-functional GTK port, etc, etc,
etc, and people are wasting time adding features like
divorce-by-email?
I mean, I know its a volunteer project and people will do as they
please - you can't give orders to volunteers - but I can think of a
lot more useful ways to spend time than this kind of tomfoolery.
Oh, and by the way, speaking of pointless features, in addition to
being 3 year old news, the "coffee.el" link on xemacs.org points to
403-land. Can we please drop that silly news item from the website?
-Charles
PS. I wish I had more time to devote to XEmacs hacking! I changed
jobs a few months back and am finding myself with a lot less time for
doing this stuff :-(
2:13 a.m.
>>>> "Charles" == Charles G Waldman
<cgw(a)alum.mit.edu> writes:
(AFAICT) that had support for a built-in periodic table. We *could*
be the first to have that feature but does that mean that we *should*?
I think this is short-sighted.
What next ? Are you going to get rid of doctor.el as well ?
I think just because you're lucky enough that you don't have to divorce
or that you don't have to do it over email doesn't mean that you should
deprive other users of that functionality.
Stefan
6:11 a.m.
FWIW I agree with Charles, but I also think this could do a disservice to
XEmacs. However well intentioned, its making some sort of point and easy to
construe that point as bigoted in some way (even though I'm sure it isn't in
intent). Put another way, someone is inevitably going to take offense and I
don't see the value in putting out a package that does little more than
that.
andy
-----Original Message-----
From: xemacs-beta-admin(a)xemacs.org
[mailto:xemacs-beta-admin＠xemacs.org]On Behalf Of Charles G Waldman
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 5:40 PM
To: xemacs-beta(a)xemacs.org
Subject: Re: divorce.el
SL Baur writes:
>
> No, I'm not kidding. Please, please, pretty please. O-negai.
>
> How can we possibly stake our claim as the kitchen sink editor if
> divorce by email exists and we don't support it? We'll be the
> *first* to support it automatically and that's what packages are
> all about -- if you don't want it, don't load it.
There are an awful lot of useful goodies out there in Elisp-land. I'm
thinking of things like globrep.el, follow.el, auto-revert.el, etc.
All of these things would be sensible candidates for the package
system, because they are all things that are potentially useful.
Even the eperiodic.el thingy `that got mentioned on the list today.
If we packaged "eperiodic" with XEmacs, we'd be the first editor
(AFAICT) that had support for a built-in periodic table. We *could*
be the first to have that feature but does that mean that we *should*?
I can't imagine anyone ever availing themselves of divorce.el. I'd
bet good money that the intersection of the sets "xemacs users",
"people living in countries where divorce by email is legal", and
"people who are actually looking to get a divorce" is the empty set!
It may be a tiny bit funny as a joke, but I hope that good sense
prevails and it doesn't make it's way into the packages.
We've got a busted etags.el, screwed-up syntax tables, coding-system
confusion, funky buffer-tabs, a semi-functional GTK port, etc, etc,
etc, and people are wasting time adding features like
divorce-by-email?
I mean, I know its a volunteer project and people will do as they
please - you can't give orders to volunteers - but I can think of a
lot more useful ways to spend time than this kind of tomfoolery.
Oh, and by the way, speaking of pointless features, in addition to
being 3 year old news, the "coffee.el" link on xemacs.org points to
403-land. Can we please drop that silly news item from the website?
-Charles
PS. I wish I had more time to devote to XEmacs hacking! I changed
jobs a few months back and am finding myself with a lot less time for
doing this stuff :-(
11:35 p.m.
|--==> "SB" == SL Baur <steve(a)bsd2.kbnes.nec.co.jp> writes:
SB> 2002 4月 10 水曜日 06:46、Steve Youngs さんは書きました:
>You have got to be kidding. You're going to have a very hard
>time convincing me to include it in the packages.
SB> No, I'm not kidding. Please, please, pretty please.
Sorry Steve, but the answer is no.
'divorce.el' would be highly offensive to a lot of people (myself
included). It implies that women should be treated as nothing more
than a possession that can be discarded at any time by proxy.
Your user base would be zero. Just how many XEmacs using, Middle
Eastern Islamic men [1] who want to divorce their wives by email there
are?
I would also question its legality. Didn't someone post something
about a court ruling that in fact divorce via email wasn't legal or
binding?
This library is not worth the risk to XEmacs' reputation.
SB> O-negai.
I have no idea what this means, but I choose to take it as a
compliment. Thanks. :-)
Footnotes:
[1] I'm pretty sure that under Islamic law there is no way for a
woman to divorce her husband.
--
|---<Steve Youngs>---------------<GnuPG KeyID: 10D5C9C5>---|
| XEmacs - It's not just an editor. |
| It's a way of life. |
|------------------------------------<youngs(a)xemacs.org>---|
1:44 a.m.
At 08:35 AM 4/11/02 +1000, Steve Youngs wrote:
> SB> O-negai.
(Japanese for "Please.")
>
>I have no idea what this means, but I choose to take it as a
>compliment. Thanks. :-)
Andy Piper wrote:
Sounds like oonagi [?]. Delicious!
I think you mean unagi (eel). Yes, delicious.
3:53 a.m.
Steve Youngs <youngs(a)xemacs.org> writes:
SB> O-negai.
I have no idea what this means, but I choose to take it as a
compliment. Thanks. :-)
It's Japanese for please:
http://linear.mv.com/cgi-bin/j-e/jis/nocolor/dosearch?sDict=on&H=PS&a...
ttyl,
--
Josh Huber
5:51 a.m.
* Steve Youngs <youngs(a)xemacs.org> writes:
SL Baur <steve(a)bsd2.kbnes.nec.co.jp> writes:
>> Steve Youngs:
>> You have got to be kidding. You're going to have a very
hard time
>> convincing me to include it in the packages.
> No, I'm not kidding. Please, please, pretty please.
Sorry Steve, but the answer is no.
'divorce.el' would be highly offensive to a lot of people (myself
included). It implies that women should be treated as nothing more
than a possession that can be discarded at any time by proxy.
Will you also try to ban 99% of Sweden's film productions then?
Your user base would be zero.
Uhhh... no?
Just how many XEmacs using, Middle Eastern Islamic men [1] who want
to
divorce their wives by email there are?
Since most camels and goats I know suffer from severe dyslexia, anyway,
that's a minor problem IMAO.
I would also question its legality. Didn't someone post
something
about a court ruling that in fact divorce via email wasn't legal or
binding?
In most cases, it should at least be worth a try.
This library is not worth the risk to XEmacs' reputation.
radioactive:/usr/local/src/CVS/xemacs-21.5# grep -irl fuck * | wc -l
51
Also, please consider removing the doctor-strangelove function from
doctor.el because many XEmacs using, Middle Western White Trash men[1]
will take offense in Führer being spelled fuehrer.
Dude, just because you live in a country that considers gassing people
humour and referring to regular bodily functions an obscenity does not
mean people from civilized countries do as well. Or, to be more precise,
FUCK PC! With a baseball bat. Up the ass. With no KY-Jelly whatsoever. For
a long time. With an angelic smile on your face. And then some.
> O-negai.
I have no idea what this means, but I choose to take it as a
compliment. Thanks. :-)
I think it's onomatopeic. It's what Middle Eastern Islamic women sound like
when... how do you call that in PC-lingo? Anyway, imagine a roaring sound
of profound satisfaction. Like your inflatable sheep bursting. Here's the
prelude: http://dexter.netwarriors.org/images/datewyom.jpg
Shalom!
Ro"politicallyincorrectandproudofit"bin
Footnotes:
[1] I'm pretty sure that there are many other fucked up white men and
women in other parts of the world, too, but they're a much boring
target.
8:36 p.m.
"Robin S. Socha" <robin-dated-1018758966.769d58(a)socha.net> writes:
* Steve Youngs <youngs(a)xemacs.org> writes:
> 'divorce.el' would be highly offensive to a lot of people (myself
> included). It implies that women should be treated as nothing more
> than a possession that can be discarded at any time by proxy.
Will you also try to ban 99% of Sweden's film productions then?
Eh, what is offensive about movies about dysfunctional families
(i.e. 99% of Sweden's film production)? Boring, yes, but offensive?
Now if you had said Denmark's film production, I would have understood
the point. We used to be market leaders in the pornography industry.
And proud of it.
4:13 a.m.
Lest we forget ...
2002 April-11 Thursday 13:51、Robin S. Socha wrote:
radioactive# grep -irl fuck *| wc -l
51
Every one of those fucks was illegal in the United States for a
brief period of time while the Computer Decency Act was in effect.
By group consensus we decided not to censor the XEmacs source, in
effect telling the US government to go fuck itself. "Spank your
own monkey Beavis, but keep your hands off of mine."
4:31 a.m.
Lest we forget ...
I find it strange that we didn't do this and yet we did remove the
RMS-bashing comments (_you_ did in fact IIRC). Seems we have
double-standards when it comes to censorship.
I would prefer the source code was cleaned up, but I can't ever see that
happening. This is all politics really and we should probably stick to
writing software...
andy
4:55 a.m.
2002 4月 12 金曜日 12:31、Andy Piper さんは書きました:
> Lest we forget ...
I find it strange that we didn't do this and yet we did remove
the RMS-bashing comments (_you_ did in fact IIRC). Seems we have
double-standards when it comes to censorship.
Yes, I did. I took flack for it. I do not regret that decision.
There is a difference between personal attacks and general
commentary. Personal attacks have no place in code, in my opinion.
You will note though, that I *did not* remove the personal attacks
aimed at me that Wing put in. There's a difference there too. I
have CVS commit access and ultimately a veto vote on changes.
Stallman does not. (Leaving in the Wing comments made it much,
much easier to withdraw from active XEmacs development for me.)
Stallman is a lying bastard without an ounce of integrity,
possessing no coding or engineering skills whatsoever and currently
the worst impediment to the advancement of free software, but we
don't need to say that in the XEmacs source. In my opinion.
11:33 p.m.
|--==> "RSS" == Robin S Socha <robin-dated-1018758966.769d58(a)socha.net>
writes:
RSS> Will you also try to ban 99% of Sweden's film productions then?
Censorship, yes, that's another reason why divorce.el shouldn't see
the light of day. Half the population of anywhere (the women) that
this might be usable is precluded from using it.
Thanks for backing me up on this, Robin.
>I would also question its legality. Didn't someone post
something
>about a court ruling that in fact divorce via email wasn't legal or
>binding?
RSS> In most cases, it should at least be worth a try.
It has been. A court ruled against it.
>This library is not worth the risk to XEmacs' reputation.
RSS> radioactive:/usr/local/src/CVS/xemacs-21.5# grep -irl fuck * | wc -l
RSS> 51
I don't see the relevance.
RSS> Also, please consider removing the doctor-strangelove function from
RSS> doctor.el because many XEmacs using, Middle Western White Trash men[1]
RSS> will take offense in Führer being spelled fuehrer.
You are very welcome to submit a patch to correct the spelling.
RSS> Or, to be more precise, FUCK PC! With a baseball bat. Up the
RSS> ass. With no KY-Jelly whatsoever. For a long time. With an
RSS> angelic smile on your face. And then some.
I couldn't agree more. But my opposition to divorce.el has nothing to
do with political correctness.
--
|---<Steve Youngs>---------------<GnuPG KeyID: 10D5C9C5>---|
| XEmacs - It's not just an editor. |
| It's a way of life. |
|------------------------------------<youngs(a)xemacs.org>---|
8:13 p.m.
On Sat, 13 Apr 2002, Steve Youngs stated:
|--==> "RSS" == Robin S Socha
<robin-dated-1018758966.769d58(a)socha.net> writes:
RSS> Will you also try to ban 99% of Sweden's film productions then?
Censorship, yes, that's another reason why divorce.el shouldn't see
the light of day. Half the population of anywhere (the women) that
this might be usable is precluded from using it.
I don't believe I'm contributing to this silly thread, but the same *is*
true of elisp-based menstruation calendars...
(I guess the difference is physically-precluded versus
legally-precluded...)
--
`Unless they've moved it since I last checked, travelling between
England and America does not involve crossing the equator.'
--- pir
8:48 a.m.
Nix <nix(a)esperi.demon.co.uk> writes:
On Sat, 13 Apr 2002, Steve Youngs stated:
>|--==> "RSS" == Robin S Socha
<robin-dated-1018758966.769d58(a)socha.net> writes:
>
> RSS> Will you also try to ban 99% of Sweden's film productions then?
I still don't get that comment.
> Censorship, yes, that's another reason why divorce.el
shouldn't see
> the light of day. Half the population of anywhere (the women) that
> this might be usable is precluded from using it.
I don't believe I'm contributing to this silly thread, but the same *is*
true of elisp-based menstruation calendars...
Uh, the only group I can think of who can not make find a use for
these would be gay men. Nah, even they may have to deal with the
issue in the workplace.
6:29 a.m.
Your user base would be zero.
One word -- studly.el.
This library is not worth the risk to XEmacs' reputation.
C-u 16 M-x flame
You're probably Moonie yourself. You have the stupidity of a wimp.
So, when ya gotta go ya gotta go? Let me tell you something, you
wally, Napoleon's prejudice is crass. I couldn't care less about
your bug fix. How can you be so abusive? You make me sick. It's
well known that life is lack of common decency. You depressing old
Nazi! Save the sexist jokes! Your prejudice reminds me of a
mental problem. Only a sexist like you would say that I wish I
were a surfboard, but white people don't get married to feminist
people because they don't know how. Let me tell you something, you
ignoramus, bug fixs are fun. You make me sick. You dumb unborn
sadist! You sound like a real wally.
[This almost always comes up with at least one un-PC racially
prejudiced generated statement]
10:49 p.m.
|--==> "SB" == SL Baur <steve(a)bsd2.kbnes.nec.co.jp> writes:
>Your user base would be zero.
SB> One word --
studly.el.
[...]
SB> C-u 16 M-x flame
Citing 2 libraries that we distribute as "games" does nothing to
support your argument.
--
|---<Steve Youngs>---------------<GnuPG KeyID: 10D5C9C5>---|
| XEmacs - It's not just an editor. |
| It's a way of life. |
|------------------------------------<youngs(a)xemacs.org>---|
4:01 p.m.
Steve Youngs <youngs(a)xemacs.org> writes:
|--==> "SB" == SL Baur
<steve(a)bsd2.kbnes.nec.co.jp> writes:
SB> Of course, automating this is something we must have in XEmacs.
You have got to be kidding. You're going to have a very hard time
convincing me to include it in the packages.
This should be in the CORE! :)
-bp
--
Ceterum censeo vi esse delendam
11:37 p.m.
|--==> "WMP" == William M Perry <wmperry(a)gnu.org> writes:
WMP> Steve Youngs <youngs(a)xemacs.org> writes:
>|--==> "SB" == SL Baur
<steve(a)bsd2.kbnes.nec.co.jp> writes:
>
SB> Of course, automating this is something we must have in XEmacs.
>
>You have got to be kidding. You're going to have a very hard time
>convincing me to include it in the packages.
WMP> This should be in the CORE! :)
No, it should be /dev/null'd.
--
|---<Steve Youngs>---------------<GnuPG KeyID: 10D5C9C5>---|
| XEmacs - It's not just an editor. |
| It's a way of life. |
|------------------------------------<youngs(a)xemacs.org>---|
8287
days inactive
8293
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22 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
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Andy Piper -
Andy Piper -
Charles Waldman -
Josh Huber -
Nix -
Per Abrahamsen -
Robin S. Socha -
Robin S. Socha -
SL Baur -
Stefan Monnier -
Steve Youngs -
William M. Perry