8:44 a.m.
Martin Buchholz <martin(a)xemacs.org> writes:
CDE is not X11. It is a software package that requires and extends
X.
Then why does /usr/dt include base X11 libraries on some systems?
sb> If I tell configure that I don't want any stinking CDE/Motif by
sb> an unfortunately large number of options, then what business does it
sb> have sticking that directory ahead of others that I have explicitly
sb> asked to be put ahead via --x-includes and --x-libraries. Excuse me,
sb> but configure is clearly broken in this area.
You CAN specify the location of the BASE X11 using --x-includes and
--x-libraries. That has nothing to do with whether CDE is used. CDE
is not X11. CDE === KDE === GNOME !== X11.
Cool.
Since the CDE libraries use symbols in the X11 libraries, they have
to
come prior to X11 in the link line.
This is all fine.
It is an autoconf limitation that there can only be one x-includes
directory and only one x-libraries directory, which does not reflect
the real world. That is an autoconf design bug, which we could work
around. Unfortunately, it is fuzzy exactly what X11 is.
O.K.
>> Does anyone actually have a real live PROBLEM that removing
/usr/dt
>> would solve? There would certainly be many problems that it would
>> introduce.
sb> Yes. I couldn't build an XEmacs binary on HP/UX against /usr/contrib
sb> X11R6 libraries without manually modifying configure to make /usr/dt
sb> go away.
I don't believe you.
Whatever.
--site-libraries, --site-runtime-libraries and --site-includes
allows you to specify directories that ALWAYS get priority (modulo
bugs, of course).
I didn't have the builder attempt that. After --x-includes and
--x-libraries didn't work, he gave up trying to work within the system
and used brute force.
sb> I have that patch sitting in my incoming queue. I'm almost in enough
sb> of a foul mood over this to consider applying it.
A patch that would do what, exactly? Does our HP-UX beta community
want it?
I have no idea.
Can you give me an HP-UX account?
No. I don't have one myself -- and I suppose that also is part of the
frustration.
The question stands:
There is already a flag based on whether Motif is needed. Why can't
the configure dependency on /usr/dt be based on whether either Motif
or CDE are either autodetected or requested?
Or else, why the hell does configure peek into /usr/contrib/... and
fuck itself up with /usr/dt when sufficient configure options are
given to make it clear that CDE/Motif are *not* wanted?
Inquiring minds want to know.
7:38 p.m.
New subject: What is /usr/dt/lib?
>>>> "sb" == SL Baur <steve(a)xemacs.org>
writes:
sb> Martin Buchholz <martin(a)xemacs.org> writes:
> CDE is not X11. It is a software package that requires and
> extends X.
sb> Then why does /usr/dt include base X11 libraries on some
sb> systems?
Well, on HP at least, the last installed version of the X libs are
X11R6, along with a special version of Motif in
/usr/{lib,include}/Motif1.2_R6.
CDE, on the other hand, relies on X11R5 and the associated motif. The
includes/libs are symbolic links to /usr/{lib/include}/{X11R5,Motif1.2}.
A bit of a pain, really...
Richard.
--
|-------------------------------------------------------------|
| Richard Cognot | Proceed, with fingers crossed... |
| | /\^^/\ |
| <cognot(a)ensg.u-nancy.fr> | `' |
|-------------------------------------------------------------|
| http://www.ensg.u-nancy.fr/~cognot |
|-------------------------------------------------------------|
6:25 p.m.
New subject: What is /usr/dt/lib?
Richard Cognot writes:
Well, on HP at least, the last installed version of the X libs are
X11R6, along with a special version of Motif in
/usr/{lib,include}/Motif1.2_R6.
Almost. It more or less looks like having (hpux 11.0)
/usr/lib/Motif1.1/
/usr/lib/Motif1.2/
/usr/lib/Motif1.2_R6/
/usr/lib/Motif2.1/
but only /usr/include/Motif2.1
CDE, on the other hand, relies on X11R5 and the associated motif.
The
includes/libs are symbolic links to /usr/{lib/include}/{X11R5,Motif1.2}.
Well, I guess even that depends on the CDE release. CDE 2.1 depends on
Motif2.1 and X11R6 (at least on my box).
--Marcus
9:38 p.m.
New subject: What is /usr/dt/lib?
>>>> "mt" == Marcus Thiessel
<thiessel(a)hpbbse.bbn.hp.com> writes:
mt> Richard Cognot writes:
> Well, on HP at least, the last installed version of the X libs
> are X11R6, along with a special version of Motif in
> /usr/{lib,include}/Motif1.2_R6.
mt> Almost. It more or less looks like having (hpux 11.0)
mt> /usr/lib/Motif1.1/ /usr/lib/Motif1.2/ /usr/lib/Motif1.2_R6/
mt> /usr/lib/Motif2.1/
mt> but only /usr/include/Motif2.1
> CDE, on the other hand, relies on X11R5 and the associated
> motif. The includes/libs are symbolic links to
> /usr/{lib/include}/{X11R5,Motif1.2}.
mt> Well, I guess even that depends on the CDE release. CDE 2.1
mt> depends on Motif2.1 and X11R6 (at least on my box).
Sorry. Forgot to mention that I'm running hpux 10.20. I don't feel
comfortable enough with 11.0 to install it. Besides, we haven't got
all the applications we need here for it (specifically, the C++
compiler).
Usually, with HP, you get all the shared libs from X11R4/R5/R6
installed, and the same for the Motif 1.1/1.2/1.2_R6/2.1, for
compatibility. Actually, that used to cause problems with configure,
as it would sometimes pick hpux9shxr4.h on hpux 9, instead of the
required X11R5 (that was with the last 19.X releases. Since then, all
our hpux 9 boxes got out of the window). The only includes installed
should be the latest version, excpet on hpux10, where *both* R5/R6 are
fully installed, with the corresponding Motif releases. That
particular nightmare is due to CDE 1.0 requiring R5.
Richard.
--
|-------------------------------------------------------------|
| Richard Cognot | Proceed, with fingers crossed... |
| | /\^^/\ |
| <cognot(a)ensg.u-nancy.fr> | `' |
|-------------------------------------------------------------|
| http://www.ensg.u-nancy.fr/~cognot |
|-------------------------------------------------------------|
7:51 p.m.
New subject: What is /usr/dt/lib?
>>>> "sb" == SL Baur <steve(a)xemacs.org>
writes:
sb> Martin Buchholz <martin(a)xemacs.org> writes:
> CDE is not X11. It is a software package that requires and
extends X.
sb> Then why does /usr/dt include base X11 libraries on some systems?
Probably someone thought it would be a convenience for users - only
one dir to link with. Of course, one could go further, and just put
all vendor-provided libs in /usr/lib. Sun provides convenience
symlinks for X11, but not CDE, libs in /usr/lib.
sb> If I tell configure that I don't want any stinking CDE/Motif by
sb> an unfortunately large number of options, then what business does it
sb> have sticking that directory ahead of others that I have explicitly
sb> asked to be put ahead via --x-includes and --x-libraries. Excuse me,
sb> but configure is clearly broken in this area.
The X detection was the last bit of code in autoconf 2 that I didn't
modify, but merely extended - but now it's clear it needs to be rewritten as well.
...
sb> The question stands:
sb> There is already a flag based on whether Motif is needed. Why can't
sb> the configure dependency on /usr/dt be based on whether either Motif
sb> or CDE are either autodetected or requested?
There is NO configure flag currently that says ``I don't want Motif''
or ``I don't want to use /usr/dt''
sb> Or else, why the hell does configure peek into /usr/contrib/... and
sb> fuck itself up with /usr/dt when sufficient configure options are
sb> given to make it clear that CDE/Motif are *not* wanted?
Please define `fuck'.
Why do you so hate Motif? Have you been talking to rms again?
/usr/contrib contains parts of X11 that other vendors consider
standard, but HP does not.
sb> Inquiring minds want to know.
As far as I am aware, all the features and libraries built into XEmacs
are under user control via configure options. A careful selection of
configure options will keep XEmacs from being linked with libXm or libDt*.
Martin
9574
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9574
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4 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
-
Marcus Thiessel -
Martin Buchholz -
Richard Cognot -
SL Baur