MS> Have you actually *loaded* the thing? I thought that should happen as you navigate the Hierarchy of Doom (TM) (i.e. Options->Customize->Emacs...) I mean, gobs of other stuff gets loaded when you do that - but only the bits necessary to customize, I thought maybe I need to clarify I used to not use customize at all, so for example for efs setup I had this: (require 'efs-auto) (if (getenv "USER") (setq efs-default-user (getenv "USER"))) (if (getenv "EMAIL_ADDRESS") (setq efs-generate-anonymous-password (getenv "EMAIL_ADDRESS")) (if (and (getenv "USER") (getenv "DOMAINNAME")) (setq efs-generate-anonymous-password (concat (getenv "USER")"＠"(getenv "DOMAINNAME"))))) (setq efs-auto-save 1) and that's been fine for years but in a fit of insanity I decided to try to move everything I could into customize, so I've been doing that bit by bit I'm sort of playing novice user (not a huge stretch, I know) who's just trying to set things up from scratch, except that I have the advantage of knowing a bit about what I want, how to poke around, etc. (but I'm no Emacs master either) of course, after I load it it shows up in the HoD, and I can M-x customize RET efs RET and there it is, but how is the novice going to know it even exists if it isn't in the HoD until it's loaded explicitly? or am I just expecting too much user-friendliness? (in addition, maybe the HoD entry should be more descriptive, e.g. "Extended File System" rather than just "Efs"?) -John

michael, doesn't this mean you need a :require efs in your defgroup? john really is right that you shouldn't have to manually load. "Michael Sperber [Mr. Preprocessor]" wrote: -- Ben In order to save my hands, I am cutting back on my mail. I also write as succinctly as possible -- please don't be offended. If you send me mail, you _will_ get a response, but please be patient, especially for XEmacs-related mail. If you need an immediate response and it is not apparent in your message, please say so. Thanks for your understanding. See also http://www.666.com/ben/typing.html.