SJT> Reply-To set. APA> See http://www.google.com/services/free.html APA> I sign us up for this unless I hear any well-founded APA> dissenting opinions. SJT> I guess this is as good a time as any.... SJT> There's recently been a discussion on Mailman Developers SJT> about the value and dangers of giving Google access to your SJT> mailing list archives. Note that this is a separate issue SJT> from the web site. However, the archives are linked from our SJT> website, and AFAICT from Google's FAQ they will follow those SJT> links. SJT> The value seems to basically be what Adrian has pointed out SJT> (and Kilian Foth in a recent post to c.e.x): Google indexes SJT> your site for you. Barry Warsaw mentions that a commercial SJT> search engine was donated to Python.org---and they ran out of SJT> capacity. XEmacs isn't that big yet (but why not? ;-), but SJT> the maintenance effort is a big deal to us for exactly the SJT> reason that we're not so big. So from the maintenance point SJT> of view this looks like a big win (not to mention the SJT> benefits of a web-standard interface for users). Yep. SJT> The downside is that, as Chuq Von Rospach puts it, "you're SJT> handing your list of subscribers to the spammers." I hasten SJT> to add that it's not that bad; you're actually only handing SJT> posters' addresses out. We keep the subscribers' list closed SJT> for exactly this reason. But the spammers can and do harvest SJT> list archives just as they do web sites and Usenet. Can't they do this now? SJT> I assume most people are aware of this. (If you're not, and SJT> the revelation worries you, you might want to look into Jason SJT> Mastaler's TMDA: http://sourceforge.net/projects/tmda/.) SJT> However, I would be interested to know if people feel that SJT> the benefit to searchers is not worth it, and we should SJT> figure out how to close off the archives, especially to SJT> Google et al. It's worth it for me, including mailing lists. SJT> Replies to me, especially if you feel the archives should be SJT> closed to prevent harvesting by spammers. I'll summarize in SJT> a week or so, and we can have public discussion then based on SJT> some idea of how people feel, if it seems controversial. Please let's not make it much longer than a week. Interested parties will respond within hours or days, unless they're offline. But who knows when everybody will be back online. Thanks in advance, Adrian SJT> -- SJT> Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp SJT> University of Tsukuba Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN SJT> Don't ask how you can "do" free software business; SJT> ask what your business can "do for" free software. -- Adrian Aichner mailto:adrian＠xemacs.org http://www.xemacs.org/

Peter> Adrian Aichner writes: Peter> it should be easy to setup a Makefile target to rebuild the Peter> namazu database when it needs it Sure. Peter> would it help if you had a sidekick ?? Yes please, Peter. Peter> i have quite a bit of experience with webmastering and Peter> sys-admining Great! Peter> if you want an idea of the sites i look after go to Peter> http://edw.com.au/ Well, following result isn't very impressive :-) http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fedw.com.au%2F&charset=... Peter> i admin that box and wrote the web security for it as well Now they just need to start writing valid HTML :-) Peter> -- Peter> XEmacs Advocate | Do not try the patience of Wizards, Peter> FreeBSD Devote | for they are subtle and quick to anger. Peter> Perl Hacker | - Elric (Technomage) , Babylon 5. Peter> Apache God | <mailto:rendhalver＠users.sf.net> -- Adrian Aichner mailto:adrian＠xemacs.org http://www.xemacs.org/

Peter> Adrian Aichner writes: >> >> Peter> Adrian Aichner writes: Peter> it should be easy to setup a Makefile target to rebuild the Peter> namazu database when it needs it Peter> i will see if i can set it up here and let you know how it Peter> goes Thanks Peter> would it help if you had a sidekick ?? Peter> done happy to help out however i can Can I have that written in blood? :-) Peter> i have quite a bit of experience with webmastering and Peter> sys-admining Peter> if you want an idea of the sites i look after go to Peter> http://edw.com.au/ Peter> i admin that box and wrote the web security for it as well Peter> oh ok um thats not my bit i do the underneath stuff the non Peter> html stuff that is :) I thought so. I wouldn't have embarrased you in public. Peter> i will tell my business partner that it fails the validator They'll be happy to I'm sure :-) Peter> the impressive thing is the uptime for the box baring power Peter> outages (not something i can stop, yet) and the box below Peter> ours blowing up (dodgy power suply i think) and kernel Peter> rebuilds (a necessary reboot unfortunatly) it has been up Peter> since Dec-4-2000 Yep, our sun boxes only go down when we relocate them in the building. Peter> -- Peter> XEmacs Advocate | Do not try the patience of Wizards, Peter> FreeBSD Devote | for they are subtle and quick to anger. Peter> Perl Hacker | - Elric (Technomage) , Babylon 5. Peter> Apache God | <mailto:rendhalver＠users.sf.net> -- Adrian Aichner mailto:adrian＠xemacs.org http://www.xemacs.org/

|--==> "APA" == Adrian Aichner <Adrian.Aichner(a)t-online.de&gt; writes: APA> See APA> http://www.google.com/services/free.html APA> I want to give this a try before we take on the burden of installing APA> (and maintaining!) a namazu search engine for XEmacs. APA> We have three master websites and I don't like the idea of maintain APA> search and indexing engines on all these. APA> And we have many web-mirrors too! APA> I sign us up for this unless I hear any well-founded dissenting APA> opinions. How about... - Peter has been working on namazu for quite some time now, I'm sure he'd hate that to be for nothing. - Peter has offered to maintain it for us. That's zero burden for you, Adrian. - The SPAM issues that Steve T raised. - Updating the normal content of the web sites (and mirrors) isn't a problem and this wouldn't be any different. Surely the main site would get indexed and it would automatically filter down to the other sites. And if it doesn't, I'm sure that Peter can overcome this. - Why out-source when we have somebody ready willing and able to do it in-house. Adrian, please don't sign us up with Google (at least not yet). Lets do it the other way around... Let Peter run with namazu. If it turns out to be more trouble than it's worth we can re-visit the Google idea then. -- |---<Steve Youngs>---------------<GnuPG KeyID: 10D5C9C5>---| | XEmacs - It's not just an editor. | | It's a way of life. | |------------------------------------&lt;youngs(a)xemacs.org&gt;---|