April 1999 - XEmacs-Beta - XEmacs Mailing List Archives

Re: possible bugs with key maps? 25 years, 8 months

Hrvoje Niksic

John H Palmieri <John.H.Palmieri.2(a)nd.edu> writes: > > Output of `describe-key' is not intended to be read back to the > > reader > > I'm not sure what you mean by this. I mean that the output of `C-h k' is not guaranteed to be correct so you can type `C-x C-e' on the printed form to evaluated. It's just supposed to tell you the name of the function. > Since `C-h k' is one of the basic help commands available, its > output should be as clear and unambiguous as possible. I guess `princ' could be changed to `prin1' without too many problems, but binding keys to anonymous functions and then complaining about `C-h k' output is ridiculous. > make `A undefined. This seems like better behavior to me: the > default is still to have "A" act like "a" (so SHFT-SPC acts like > SPC), but it's not hard to unbind "A" if one wants to. (Plus, one > might actually be led to try this by reading the documentation.) The name of the variable `retry-undefined-key-binding-unshifted' suggests that undefined keys should be retried unshifted. Obviously, the code in keymap.c considers a key being bound to `undefined' as "undefined", which looks correct to me. Whether the resulting behaviour in your case is correct is another question. I think it is. > Jan Vroonhof <vroonhof(a)math.ethz.ch> writes: > > > This seems to be intentional. There is 28 lines of C to just this. See also > > `retry-undefined-key-binding-unshifted' (watch the Doc string though). > > I am not sure why this is done though... > > Is this variable documented anywhere (in an info file, that is: I > know how to type C-h v)? No; probably by omission. It will be documented sooner or later. > How should I have found out about it, besides asking people familiar > with the source code? By looking at the source code yourself? :-) > Documentation: > If a key-sequence which ends with a shifted keystroke is undefined > and this variable is non-nil then the command lookup is retried again > with the last key unshifted. (e.g. C-X C-F would be retried as C-X C-f.) > If lookup still fails, a normal error is signalled. In general, > you should *bind* this, not set it. > > Does "bind" in the last sentence mean that I should use `let'? Yes. I have no idea what how the author envisioned this binding, though.

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Re: possible bugs with key maps? 25 years, 8 months

John H Palmieri

Replies/questions for both Hrvoje Niksic and Jan Vroonhof here... ********** Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic(a)srce.hr> writes: > John H Palmieri <John.H.Palmieri.2(a)nd.edu> writes: > > > I can't quite tell if these two things are bugs or not. > > Not. > [snip] > Output of `describe-key' is not intended to be read back to the > reader I'm not sure what you mean by this. Since `C-h k' is one of the basic help commands available, its output should be as clear and unambiguous as possible. > , so the difference between `princ' and `prin1' should not > matter. ********** I said: > 2. The second problem is that I can't seem to define a key map in > which "a" is bound but "A" is not. I initialize the keymap with > [...] > Now hitting `a inserts a. Hitting `A inserts a. Hitting `b gives > the message > ` b is not defined. > > How can I get `A to act like `b? I've tried Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic(a)srce.hr> replied: > That's a feature which you can turn off by setting > `retry-undefined-key-binding-unshifted' to nil. However, I find > globally setting this to nil annoying, as it makes pressing > shift-space beep because "Sh-SPC is not defined". > > I'm not sure if it can be turned on or off as a per-keymap property. > > I don't know how FSFmacs behaves wrt retrying keys unshifted. If I just give GNU Emacs the command (define-key my-map "a" 'self-insert-command) then GNU Emacs and XEmacs act the same: hitting `A inserts "a". With GNU Emacs, both (define-key my-map "A" 'undefined) and (suppress-keymap my-map) make `A undefined. This seems like better behavior to me: the default is still to have "A" act like "a" (so SHFT-SPC acts like SPC), but it's not hard to unbind "A" if one wants to. (Plus, one might actually be led to try this by reading the documentation.) ********** Jan Vroonhof <vroonhof(a)math.ethz.ch> writes: > This seems to be intentional. There is 28 lines of C to just this. See also > `retry-undefined-key-binding-unshifted' (watch the Doc string though). > I am not sure why this is done though... Is this variable documented anywhere (in an info file, that is: I know how to type C-h v)? How should I have found out about it, besides asking people familiar with the source code? I'm a little confused by the documentation: Documentation: If a key-sequence which ends with a shifted keystroke is undefined and this variable is non-nil then the command lookup is retried again with the last key unshifted. (e.g. C-X C-F would be retried as C-X C-f.) If lookup still fails, a normal error is signalled. In general, you should *bind* this, not set it. Does "bind" in the last sentence mean that I should use `let'? Or does it mean something else? Does anyone know of examples of this being used in defining keymaps? -- John H. Palmieri e-mail: palmieri.2(a)nd.edu 205 Computing/Math Bldg. URL:http://www.nd.edu/~jpalmier/ University of Notre Dame (219) 631-8846 Notre Dame, IN 46556

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Re: possible bugs with key maps? 25 years, 8 months

Hrvoje Niksic

Jan Vroonhof <vroonhof(a)math.ethz.ch> writes: > > 2. The second problem is that I can't seem to define a key map in > > which "a" is bound but "A" is not. > > This seems to be intentional. There is 28 lines of C to just > this. See also `retry-undefined-key-binding-unshifted' (watch the > Doc string though). I am not sure why this is done though... So that pressing shift-space and such doesn't beep. At one time I tried turning it off in my .emacs, and XEmacs went all beepy, so I turned it back on.

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Re: 21.0 at the website :-( 25 years, 8 months

Jan Vroonhof

Marcus Thiessel <marcus(a)xemacs.org> writes: > Jan Vroonhof writes: > | Could you stick in a reference to README.packages (!= etc/Packages) > | somewhere. An online version would be nice. I think a good solution > | would be to rename the current "Elisp Packages" entry to something > | else that does not cause confusion now that we have a special meaning > | for "Packages" and stick the readme under that. Then put link from > | NEWS to there.. > > Now I set up a link at http://www.xemacs.org/ pointing to an online > copy of README.packages at http://www.xemacs.org/packages/guide.html > > Comments welcome! Nice. Even reformatted!. Small thing <listing> xemacs-sumo-<date>.tar.gz </listing> Here the <date> needs to be &lt date&gt The same problem occurs more often (also in the NEWS I believe). -- Jan Vroonhof http://www.math.ethz.ch/~vroonhof/ Mathematik, vroonhof ＠ math.ethz.ch HG E16, ETH-Zentrum, Tel: +41-1-6325456/25154 Raemistrasse 101, CH-8092 Zuerich. Fax: +41-1-6321085

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Re: possible bugs with key maps? 25 years, 8 months

Hrvoje Niksic

John H Palmieri <John.H.Palmieri.2(a)nd.edu> writes: > I can't quite tell if these two things are bugs or not. Not. > 1. If I execute > > (define-key global-map "|" > '(lambda () > "Insert the string \"abc\"" > (interactive) > (insert "abc"))) > > then hitting the `|' key inserts the string "abc". The output from > `M-x describe-key |' looks a bit funny, though: > > | runs (lambda nil Insert the string "abc" (interactive) (insert abc)) > > Insert the string "abc" > What happened to the quotation marks " in the first line, both > around the documentation string and the abc at the end? That's probably because `describe-key' and friends use `princ' to print the symbol. `princ' does not print delimiters around strings. If you want delimiters, you should use `prin1'. Output of `describe-key' is not intended to be read back to the reader, so the difference between `princ' and `prin1' should not matter. > 2. The second problem is that I can't seem to define a key map in > which "a" is bound but "A" is not. I initialize the keymap with [...] > Now hitting `a inserts a. Hitting `A inserts a. Hitting `b gives > the message > ` b is not defined. > > How can I get `A to act like `b? I've tried That's a feature which you can turn off by setting `retry-undefined-key-binding-unshifted' to nil. However, I find globally setting this to nil annoying, as it makes pressing shift-space beep because "Sh-SPC is not defined". I'm not sure if it can be turned on or off as a per-keymap property. > Each of these does what I want with GNU Emacs, but not with XEmacs. I don't know how FSFmacs behaves wrt retrying keys unshifted.

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Re: possible bugs with key maps? 25 years, 8 months

Jan Vroonhof

John H Palmieri <John.H.Palmieri.2(a)nd.edu> writes: > `M-x describe-key |' looks a bit funny, though: > > | runs (lambda nil Insert the string "abc" (interactive) (insert abc)) > > Insert the string "abc" This is probably a bug. describe-key is using princ somewhere where it really should using print1 > 2. The second problem is that I can't seem to define a key map in > which "a" is bound but "A" is not. This seems to be intentional. There is 28 lines of C to just this. See also `retry-undefined-key-binding-unshifted' (watch the Doc string though). I am not sure why this is done though... JAn

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possible bugs with key maps? 25 years, 8 months

John H Palmieri

XEmacs 21.2 "Demeter" [Lucid] (sparc-sun-solaris2.5) of Mon Mar 15 1999 on ahoward I can't quite tell if these two things are bugs or not. In any case, the behaviors are undesirable, at least to me. Any other opinions? 1. If I execute (define-key global-map "|" '(lambda () "Insert the string \"abc\"" (interactive) (insert "abc"))) then hitting the `|' key inserts the string "abc". The output from `M-x describe-key |' looks a bit funny, though: | runs (lambda nil Insert the string "abc" (interactive) (insert abc)) Insert the string "abc" What happened to the quotation marks " in the first line, both around the documentation string and the abc at the end? `(insert abc)' looks particularly bad to me: it's indistinguishable from the case where I do this, instead: (defconst abc "def") (define-key global-map "|" '(lambda () "Insert the value of the string variable abc" (interactive) (insert abc))) 2. The second problem is that I can't seem to define a key map in which "a" is bound but "A" is not. I initialize the keymap with (defvar my-map nil) (define-prefix-command 'my-map) (define-key my-map "a" 'self-insert-command) I check to see how "A" is bound: (lookup-key my-map "A") > nil Then I test it: I bind backquote to my-map and see what happens. (global-set-key "`" 'my-map) Now hitting `a inserts a. Hitting `A inserts a. Hitting `b gives the message ` b is not defined. How can I get `A to act like `b? I've tried (define-key my-map "A" 'undefined) and (suppress-keymap my-map) Each of these does what I want with GNU Emacs, but not with XEmacs. Is this a bug, or am I just missing something? -- John H. Palmieri e-mail: palmieri.2(a)nd.edu 205 Computing/Math Bldg. URL:http://www.nd.edu/~jpalmier/ University of Notre Dame (219) 631-8846 Notre Dame, IN 46556

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Re: 21.0 at the website :-( 25 years, 8 months

Marcus Thiessel

Jan Vroonhof writes: | Could you stick in a reference to README.packages (!= etc/Packages) | somewhere. An online version would be nice. I think a good solution | would be to rename the current "Elisp Packages" entry to something | else that does not cause confusion now that we have a special meaning | for "Packages" and stick the readme under that. Then put link from | NEWS to there.. Now I set up a link at http://www.xemacs.org/ pointing to an online copy of README.packages at http://www.xemacs.org/packages/guide.html Comments welcome!

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Re: Compile Failure in Latest CVS Sources for 21.2 25 years, 8 months

Hrvoje Niksic

Norbert Koch <n.koch(a)delta-ii.de> writes: > > > make[1]: *** No rule to make target `puresize-adjust.h', needed by > > > `alloc.o'. Stop. > > > > You have to rebuild the dependencies. I think I've done it with > > `make depend' followed by a reinvocation of `config.status'. > > has anyone succeeded in building the latest sources from CVS on NT > (native build)? No idea. Maybe you should ask at <xemacs-nt>? > I also get the above error and I can't do a makedepend, because the > "expanded command line ..." is too long. I don't know how to handle that.

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21.0 Release changes (Don't forget the date!) 25 years, 8 months

Jan Vroonhof

This is to remind whoever is going to do the real release to not forget to update the date in About XEmacs bolzano:/scratch/vroonhof/cvs/xemacs-20> cvs diff -u version.sh lisp/about.el Index: version.sh =================================================================== RCS file: /usr/CVSroot/XEmacs/xemacs-20/version.sh,v retrieving revision 1.149 diff -u -u -r1.149 version.sh --- version.sh 1999/03/25 14:06:46 1.149 +++ version.sh 1999/04/26 18:44:29 ＠＠ -1,7 +1,7 ＠＠ #!/bin/sh emacs_major_version=21 emacs_minor_version=0 -emacs_beta_version=67 +emacs_beta_version= xemacs_codename="20 minutes to Nikko" infodock_major_version=4 infodock_minor_version=0 Index: lisp/about.el =================================================================== RCS file: /usr/CVSroot/XEmacs/xemacs-20/lisp/about.el,v retrieving revision 1.37 diff -u -u -r1.37 about.el --- about.el 1999/03/15 10:35:03 1.37 +++ about.el 1999/04/26 18:44:29 ＠＠ -213,7 +213,7 ＠＠ (let* ((emacs-short-version (format "%d.%d" emacs-major-version emacs-minor-version)) - (emacs-about-version (format "version %s; Aug 1998" + (emacs-about-version (format "version %s; Apr 1999" emacs-short-version))) (widget-insert (about-center emacs-about-version)) (widget-create 'link :help-echo "The latest NEWS of XEmacs"

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XEmacs-Beta April 1999