October 1998 - XEmacs-Beta - XEmacs Mailing List Archives

Re: Debian bug tracking system contains patch for GPM C-z hang 25 years, 8 months

Jan Vroonhof

Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic(a)srce.hr> writes: > I've never seen it mailed to xemacs-patches. Is xemacs-patches announced to the outside world anyway? Note that it takes time submit patches. In this particular case it is even more difficult as the patch cannot applied to XEmacs independently. > > Anwyay I cannot really share your fealings towards debian. > > I had problems with them regarding Wget. Yes I have seen that discussion I know why they have pissed you of. However I think there is a fundamental problem here and that is not solved by "telling other developers not to cooperate". The problem IMHO lies in what a Linux distribution really is, how people from various sides look at it and what it means to have GNU tools "vendor supplied". A proper Linux distribution is not simply a collection of precompiled binaries. As they are installing GNU tools they play partly the role that used to be played by the system administrators. Therefore things that used to be 'local' hacks are now more in the open. Does it bother you that all XEmacsen here installed in their own tree of /usr/local/app/{version} although that is not the official way to share two different Emacs versions? Does it bother anyone, apart from me, that that here psfrag 3.0 is disabled in favor of 2.0 in teTeX although the psfrag authors would like very much to see it die, etc etc? Likewise I have the old man page for wget installed in my personal software tree (that is also used by others) because sometimes I prefer an outdated manpage over an up to date info file, although I know you would very much like to see it go. Similarly a distribution maintainer might need to make similar decisions. I think it still very much an open question how to solve these problems and I think it is very clear that the four tear system we now have for most Distributions: Author Distribution maintainer Sysadmin user may work very well in case whether the original authorship is unclear, unresponsive etc but is surely not the most optimal solution in the case of an active "Author". Especially as it unclear for users where to turn for support [i.e. user turning to you for problems related to the wget manpage where it would have been no problem if they sent it do the debian maintainer]. Summarizing. Social issues aside, I think there are stil major management problems to solve in the free software/distribution interaction and these tend to escalate any personal problems. > It would be interesting to note if they would be willing to bother. > I think they would. Lets just make sure ours gets off the ground first. Jan

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Re: [somewhat offtopic] quesion on shell output redirection 25 years, 8 months

Sam Steingold

>>>> In message <13867.49981.861186.531812(a)catbus.alphatech.com> >>>> On the subject of "[somewhat offtopic] quesion on shell output redirection" >>>> Sent on Mon, 19 Oct 1998 18:54:53 -0400 (EDT) >>>> Honorable greg(a)alphatech.com (Greg Klanderman) writes: >> >> am I guaranteed that output to stdout and stderr by the program is no. >> synchronized? Do the two output streams share the same buffer? no. -- Sam Steingold (http://www.goems.com/~sds) running RedHat5.1 GNU/Linux Micros**t is not the answer. Micros**t is a question, and the answer is Linux, (http://www.linux.org) the choice of the GNU (http://www.gnu.org) generation. The world will end in 5 minutes. Please log out.

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XEmacs splash screen 25 years, 8 months

Malcolm Box

In the spirit of helping new users, and checking how things look for them, I read the splash screen today. This is how it reads for XEmacs 21.0 "Pyrenean-pre6" (win32). > Copyright (C) 1985-1998 Free Software Foundation, Inc. > Copyright (C) 1990-1994 Lucid, Inc. > Copyright (C) 1993-1997 Sun Microsystems, Inc. All Rights Reserved. > Copyright (C) 1994-1996 Board of Trustees, University of Illinois > Copyright (C) 1995-1996 Ben Wing > > XEmacs comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY; type C-h C-w for full details. > You may give out copies of XEmacs; type C-h C-l to see the conditions. > Type C-h C-d for information on getting the latest version. > > Type f1 or use the Help menu to get help. > Type C-x u to undo changes (`C-' means use the Control key). > To get out of XEmacs, type M-x save-buffers-kill-emacs. > Type C-h t for a tutorial on using XEmacs. > Type C-h i to enter Info, which you can use to read online documentation. > For tips and answers to frequently asked questions, see the XEmacs FAQ. > (It's on the Help menu, or type C-h F [a capital F!].) The crucial section is the "To get out of XEmacs" bit. I know we don't ever want anyone to exit XEmacs, but a new user faced with that is going to be mighty confused. What is "Type M-x save-buffers-kill-emacs" when it's at home? We explain the meaning of C-, but not of M-x. I think it should read as follows: "To exit XEmacs, either use the File|Exit XEmacs menu item, or type M-x save-buffers-kill-emacs. "M-x" means press the Meta key and x, where the meta key could be labelled Alt, Meta or Esc." How does this sound to the rest of you? Malcolm

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Re: Autoload error: flyspell-mode-map 25 years, 8 months

Adrian Aichner

>>>>> "Marcus" == Marcus Thiessel <marcus(a)xemacs.org> writes: Marcus> After updating several binary packages I get the following Marcus> autoload error: This is a known problem. Marcus> (1) (warning/warning) Autoload error in: Marcus> /opt/src/packages/lisp/text-modes/auto-autoloads: Symbol's Marcus> value as variable is void: flyspell-mode-map Marcus> I have never used flyspell-mode. You can remove <packages>\lisp\text-modes\flyspell.el[c]? then. Marcus> --Marcus -- Adrian Aichner Applications Engineer Teradyne GmbH Semiconductor Test Group Telephone +49/89/41861(0)-208 Dingolfinger Strasse 2 Fax +49/89/41861-217 D-81673 MUENCHEN E-mail adrian.aichner(a)teradyne.com

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Re: bzip2, please get it 25 years, 8 months

Hrvoje Niksic

<jari.aalto(a)poboxes.com> (Jari Aalto+list.xemacs) writes: > I vote for it: as add-on alternative to .gz. Noone has a problem with bzip being alternative to .gz. What we're discussing here are bzip-only beta tarballs. -- Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic(a)srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia --------------------------------+-------------------------------- Do not meddle in the affairs of troff, for it is subtle and quick to anger.

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Re: bzip2, please get it 25 years, 8 months

Jari Aalto

|Mon 1998-10-19 "Matthew O. Persico" <mpersico(a)erols.com> list.xemacs | Here's my vote against bzip. I vote for it: as add-on alternative to .gz. A pointer to Sergei's site where to get NT bzip binary would be good: ftp://www.lexa.ru/pub/domestic/sos/ports/ Many users have Quota limits in non-enterprise accounts. I have to constantly fight against quota limit in my University acocunt and I welcome anything that compresses better than gzip. The speed is secondary to better compress ratio; at least for me. jari

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Re: Debian bug tracking system contains patch for GPM C-z hang 25 years, 8 months

Hrvoje Niksic

Jan Vroonhof <vroonhof(a)math.ethz.ch> writes: > Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic(a)srce.hr> writes: > > > > http://www.debian.org/Bugs/db/20/20398.html > > > > It's so fucking typical of Debian. :-( > > Note that the fix is not by somebody from debian. Given the quality > of our bug reports treatment he could very well have sent us the fix > and we missed it. I've never seen it mailed to xemacs-patches. I probably wouldn't have missed it at c.e.x., and I certainly wouldn't have missed it on xemacs-beta. > Anwyay I cannot really share your fealings towards debian. I had problems with them regarding Wget. The arrogant attitude of the people involved toward the maintainer (myself) was appalling. I was unpleasantly surprised, and am counselling developers to avoid Debian like plague. Other GNU developers have told me that they also had problems with the infamous Debian people in the past. To paraphrase Kyle, Debian is a zoo without a keeper. > P.S. Maybe one should prod the debian people into changin their bug > tracking system so that any bug against filed against their XEmacs > packages automatically gets forwarded to ours when we finally have > one. It would be interesting to note if they would be willing to bother. -- Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic(a)srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia --------------------------------+-------------------------------- there's a beast upon my shoulder / and a fiend upon my back

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Re: Debian bug tracking system contains patch for GPM C-z hang 25 years, 8 months

Jan Vroonhof

Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic(a)srce.hr> writes: > > http://www.debian.org/Bugs/db/20/20398.html > > It's so fucking typical of Debian. :-( Note that the fix is not by somebody from debian. Given the quality of our bug reports treatment he could very well have sent us the fix and we missed it. Anwyay I cannot really share your fealings towards debian. It really depends on the individual maintainers. Their XEmacs maintainer is proabbly too busy as sometimes the Debian XEmacs runs behind quite a lot. In this case their maintainer probably should escalate the bug reports to the main authors more oftenm, as unlike a lot of other packages both Emacsen have clear and active maintenance teams. On the other side Debian comes with XEmacs whereas Redhat does not all. You choose. Jan P.S. Maybe one should prod the debian people into changin their bug tracking system so that any bug against filed against their XEmacs packages automatically gets forwarded to ours when we finally have one.

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Re: 21.2 isearch keymap bug/changed behavior 25 years, 8 months

Hrvoje Niksic

SL Baur <steve(a)xemacs.org> writes: > > Does this patch fix the problem for you? > > Yup. I've applied this patch, thanks. Don't apply the patch. It has other problems. I'll have to work on a better solution. -- Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic(a)srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia --------------------------------+-------------------------------- A radioactive cat has eighteen half-lives.

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Re: What is live-screen-p ?? 25 years, 8 months

Hrvoje Niksic

Marcus Thiessel <marcus(a)xemacs.org> writes: > Hrvoje Niksic writes: > | live-screen-p is a long-obsolete function, presumably removed from > | 21.2. I don't think Gnus uses live-screen-p, but an extension package > | might. Do you use bbdb or anything like that? > > Yes, I do use bbdb which is installed as a package (latest). That's it, then. > I am wondering why this symbol's-def-is-void message only appears > when use 21.2-b3. It was the first time this showed up. Read my message again: live-screen-p has perhaps been removed from XEmacs 21.2-b3. -- Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic(a)srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia --------------------------------+-------------------------------- Oh lord won't you buy me a color TV...

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XEmacs-Beta October 1998