Re: resetting xemacs' idea of home directory
16 years, 7 months
Tim Connors
On Mon, 28 Apr 2008, I wrote:
> Perhaps if gnuclient could accept a flag to tell it to tell emacs to
> operate on a file on the remote's filesystem, with the requisite
> bidirectional communications this would require (yay! Yet another
> protocol!), and the lack of an ability to use ange-ftp and tramp syntax
> (since the user is explicitly asking for a file on the remote's local
> filesystem, I see no harm in barring them from using tramp/ange-ftp
> syntax).
That's a silly idea. I just need to append the remote syntax to any
filename supplied to my wrapper script under the right conditions.
--
Tim Connors
_______________________________________________
XEmacs-Beta mailing list
XEmacs-Beta(a)xemacs.org
http://calypso.tux.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xemacs-beta
resetting xemacs' idea of home directory
16 years, 7 months
Tim Connors
I want to reset a running xemacs' idea of where my $HOME directory is (I
want to temporarily work in a different filesystem with my main xemacs
process) so that when I open a file in ~/thesis/..., it goes to
<directory>/thesis/....
(setenv "HOME" ...) didn't do what I was hoping it would do (obviously it
would for subshells). Is there a way?
--
Tim Connors
_______________________________________________
XEmacs-Beta mailing list
XEmacs-Beta(a)xemacs.org
http://calypso.tux.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xemacs-beta
Fwd: Customize UI makeover?
16 years, 7 months
Stephen J. Turnbull
Drew can be pretty annoying but he has some good ideas about UI. The
rest of this post is his, forwarded from emacs-devel. I don't
necessarily agree with all of it, but maybe it's a place to start
discussion.
>>>>> Drew Adams writes:
Customize is an atrocious UI, at least in terms of its appearance.
Wouldn't some young turk who doesn't mind tackling the widgetry code labyrinth
please try to make a few cosmetic improvements? That could be a good summer
project. (No, not I; I took a look and it made me ill. Not to mention that I'm
no longer a young turk.)
The place to start would probably be the widget code, wid-edit.el, not the
Customize code, cus-edit.el, because the ugliness is more than skin-deep.
Attached is a screenshot of a portion of the buffer of `M-x customize-option
align-exclude-rules-list', with emacs -Q (after `load-library align'). It gives
an idea of the jungle we are presenting users with. It even has one line that is
152 characters wide - and that line would be even longer, but it includes a Lisp
string with an embedded newline char.
Some feedback (possible things to work on):
1. We have a general button problem: the raised buttons are, well, butt-ugly.
Yes, we need some visual indication of a button, but the current appearance is
pretty primitive. Most UIs don't use raised buttons unless they represent
toggles, where raised means one state (e.g. off) and recessed means the other
state (e.g. on), and the button text makes the state clear. Most UIs use images
for buttons. When images are not available we could use a more primitive
approach.
2. Button labels `INS' and `DEL' could be just `+' and `-'. Or perhaps `+' and a
typical deletion symbol `X'.
3. Button label `Value Menu' could be just `Choose'.
4. Or (but it might require a little more coding), button `Value Menu' could use
as its label the current choice's tag and include a tiny triangle to indicate
additional choices.
5. Tag values that are implicit and simply repeat the type of the field could be
eliminated (not shown): `Choice:', `Regexp:', `Lisp expression:', `String:',
`Cons-cell:', and so on. A tooltip should suffice to indicate what a field is.
When it doesn't, the particular field should probably be given its own specific
:tag. Display of the implicit (generic) tags just adds more noise to the jungle.
E.g. a user typically doesn't need to know that a field is a cons cell; it's
enough to show the two parts of the cell. We at least do this the right way for
type `alist' - we show just the key and value components directly, no
`Cons-cell:' label for each cons. Look at the difference between the types
(repeat (cons foo bar)) and (alist :key-type foo :value-type bar).
6. Child fields are indented too much. There is no reason to indent the content
of a `repeat' field (what's under the `INS DEL') by 12 spaces. When you have
nested `repeat's, as in `align-exclude-rules-list', this really gets out of
hand.
7. A tag should be on its own line. Tags can be long - they are descriptions.
The second of the following is better (where `Choose' is the button label, per
#3, and the default tag value `Choice:' is eliminated, per #4):
Choice: Value Menu Seventy (70) character tag that describes some particular
choice well.
Choose
Seventy (70) character tag that describes some particular choice well.
Plus, for some types of choice values (e.g. `string'), there is an editable
field in addition to the tag. In that case, the editable field should also be on
its own line:
Choose
Hyper-Foo Toto-Mode Title:
The Current Title, Which in This Case Is a Long String
8. More generally, a value, including a value in a `Value Menu', should
typically be on its own line. Yes, some values are short, but some (strings,
Lisp expressions, file names) can be long. Perhaps the display width of a given
value can be used to decide whether to print it on a new line.
9. Lisp expressions (e.g. functions) should be pretty-printed. That makes them
more readable and conserves horizontal space.
10. In general, we should decrease the horizontal space used, with the tradeoff
of increasing the vertical space used. That makes things more readable and can
lead to savings of screen real estate (for both windows and frames).
Yes, I realize that some users use Emacs full screen and split windows
vertically. But some users split windows horizontally or use
one-buffer-per-frame - and lines that are long (152 chars!) mean wasted
horizontal space. Like *Help*, we should aim to have *Customize* buffers be less
than 80 chars, when possible.
While it is true (IMO) that the widget and customize code is difficult to
penetrate, it is also true that once it is fathomed we have infrastructure to do
some of these things ready-to-hand. We have code to pretty-print a Lisp sexp,
for instance.
This UI has been lingering (festering) in about the same state visually for a
long time now. Many people have recognized that it is not too user-friendly. But
the basic interaction and, especially, the behind the scenes functionality
(types etc.) is fairly solid. I think that even a minor a face lift could go a
long way toward making it palatable.
_______________________________________________
XEmacs-Beta mailing list
XEmacs-Beta(a)xemacs.org
http://calypso.tux.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xemacs-beta
Re: resetting xemacs' idea of home directory
16 years, 7 months
Julian Bradfield
In article <Pine.LNX.4.61.0804262018010.2415(a)radium.ssi.swin.edu.au> Tim Connors <tconnors(a)astro.swin.edu.au> writes:
>I want to reset a running xemacs' idea of where my $HOME directory is (I
>want to temporarily work in a different filesystem with my main xemacs
>process) so that when I open a file in ~/thesis/..., it goes to
><directory>/thesis/....
Not sure what this has to do with the beta list, but...
There's no easy way to do it, because XEmacs caches the home directory
when it starts up, and in any case you can't change its own
environment.
If you're happy with just having ~ expanded, you could intercept
expand-file-name, like so:
(defvar temp-home nil "temporary home directory - must include final /")
(fset 'real-expand-file-name (symbol-function 'expand-file-name))
(defun expand-file-name (name &optional defdir)
(real-expand-file-name
(if (and temp-home (string-match "^~/" name))
(replace-match temp-home t t name)
name) defdir))
--
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
_______________________________________________
XEmacs-Beta mailing list
XEmacs-Beta(a)xemacs.org
http://calypso.tux.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xemacs-beta
Re: [Bug: 21.5-b28] Problem with dired (C-x d)
16 years, 7 months
Thomas Mittelstädt
Hmm.
Downloaded the dired package, version 1.17, again, unpacked it,
byte-compiled dired.el, and so far, could not
reproduce the problem anymore. The previous package only had .elc files
in it.
thomas
Mats Lidell schrieb:
> Michael Sperber writes:
>
>> Very odd: It seems it's trying to insert the directory list into
>> the *Buffer List* buffer.
>>
>
> This sounds like the same problem I have been seeing for years:
>
> "http://calypso.tux.org/pipermail/xemacs-beta/2006-May/009236.html"
>
> The idea that font locking could be involved let me then to go back to
> good old slow font locking and by that I manage to keep the problem
> away. But it resurfaced again a few months, maybe even half a year, ago.
> So I guess the bug it is lurking inside somewhere.
>
>
>> Could you trace the `dired-find-buffer-nocreate' function when it
>> happens, reproduce the problem, and post the output? I.e.
>>
>> M-x trace-function-backgroud RET
>> dired-find-buffer-nocreate RET
>> RET
>>
>> and then post the contents of *trace-output*?
>>
>
> I'll try this as well but from my experience when the problem occurs you
> are smoked. Trying the operation again does not reveal that much since
> the situation is different. And the dired buffer is definitely not right
> so you need to look out for other errors caused by that fact. Maybe
> deleting the dired buffer and retrying the operation is worth a try if
> the other way doesn't work out right.
>
> Yours
> --
> %% Mats
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
XEmacs-Beta mailing list
XEmacs-Beta(a)xemacs.org
http://calypso.tux.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xemacs-beta
Re: Makefile dependency generation for elisp files?
16 years, 7 months
Stephen J. Turnbull
Jerry James writes:
> I have looked at using a Common Lisp engine for the analysis, but
> Mule-encoded files make that difficult. One possibility is to have
> XEmacs convert all Mule-encoded files to something else (probably
> some form of Unicode) off-line, then feed the converted files to
> the analysis engine.
Well, we can't really justify making Unicode the official coding of
Lisp in the near future (since 21.4 can't really deal with it yet),
but we need to do something about starting the transition soon.
> folding. At a minimum, we have to know that (featurep 'xemacs) and
> running-xemacs are both the constant t,
GNU Emacs already has the byte-compiler fold those; we should do that
too, I think, if we don't already.
> and we have to be prepared to perform a string-match on
> emacs-version.
Why? Shouldn't we look for "(string-match \(.*\) emacs-version)" and
fold that if we recognize (match-string 1)?
> Is anybody interested in working on something like this?
Jerry, you're looking at this the wrong way. Why should you care if
anybody is interested? It's clearly interesting stuff (although I
probably won't work on it myself). If alioth won't support an
arbitrary number of branches, I bet Canonical's Launchpad will.
That's one major reason for doing the dVCS thing. The only question
is do you want to publish.
Mebbe I should get Barry Warsaw to bring his soapbox over and preach
the wonders of unofficial public branches.
_______________________________________________
XEmacs-Beta mailing list
XEmacs-Beta(a)xemacs.org
http://calypso.tux.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xemacs-beta
XEmacs Packages have been pre-released (2008-04-25-09)
16 years, 7 months
Norbert Koch
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Hey there everyone.
I have just added the following packages to the 'Pre-Releases'
directory:
New Packages in Pre-Release:
===========================
tm-1.39-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: none
Previously Announced Packages Still in Pre-Release:
==================================================
apel-1.33-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: 10.6
auctex-1.48-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: 11.55
calendar-1.36-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: none
cedet-common-1.01-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: 1.0pre4
dired-1.19-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: 7.16
easypg-1.02-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: 0.0.16
ediff-1.75-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: 2.75
edit-utils-2.38-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: none
edt-1.14-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: none
efs-1.34-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: 1.24
eieio-1.06-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: 1.0pre4
elib-1.13-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: 1.0
eshell-1.12-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: 2.4.1
eudc-1.40-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: 1.32
fsf-compat-1.17-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: none
general-docs-1.05-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: none
gnus-1.93-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: 5.10.8
guided-tour-0.52-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: none
hm--html-menus-1.24-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: 5.9
hyperbole-1.17-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: 5.0
igrep-1.16-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: 2.111
latin-euro-standards-1.08-pkg.ta upstream version: 1.08
leim-1.27-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: none
locale-1.27-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: none
mh-e-1.31-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: 7.4.2
misc-games-1.20-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: none
mule-base-1.52-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: none
mule-ucs-1.16-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: 0.84
net-utils-1.56-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: N/A
oo-browser-1.05-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: 4.08
os-utils-1.40-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: none
pcl-cvs-1.68-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: R-2_9_9
perl-modes-1.14-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: none
prog-modes-2.16-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: none
ps-print-1.12-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: 6.5.6
psgml-1.45-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: 1.3.2
python-modes-1.10-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: 426
scheme-1.17-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: none
sh-script-1.24-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: 2.0f
skk-1.24-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: 10.62a
speedbar-1.29-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: 1.0pre4
text-modes-1.95-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: none
tramp-1.40-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: 2.0.56
vc-1.45-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: none
viper-1.63-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: 3.09
vm-7.26-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: 7.19
w3-1.34-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: 4.0pre47
xemacs-base-2.17-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: none
xemacs-devel-1.78-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: none
xetla-1.02-pkg.tar.gz upstream version: steve(a)eicq.org--2005/xetla--main--1.1--version-0
Detailed Changes:
================
- ------- ChangeLog Entries from xemacs-packages/tm/ChangeLog -------
2008-04-25 Norbert Koch <viteno(a)xemacs.org>
* Makefile (VERSION): XEmacs package 1.39 released.
2008-04-22 Mats Lidell <matsl(a)xemacs.org>
* tm-vm.el (vm-easymenu): Remove obsolete & nonexistent require.
Fix typo.
Installing These:
================
Manually:
- --------
1) Download the packages that you want to install from:
/ftp.xemacs.org:/pub/xemacs/beta/experimental/packages/
2) Unpack them to: [1]
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/
3) Re-start XEmacs.
Using XEmacs Package Tools (XEmacs 21.[245].x):
- ----------------------------------------------
1) Tools -> Packages -> Add Download Site -> Pre-Releases
2) Tools -> Packages -> List and Install
3) Select the packages you wish to install (there are brief
instructions at the bottom of the packages buffer).
4) Packages -> Install/Remove Selected
5) Re-start XEmacs.
Using XEmacs Package Tools (XEmacs 21.1.14):
- -------------------------------------------
1) Options -> Manage Packages -> Add Download Site -> Pre-Releases
2) Options -> Manage Packages -> List and Install
3 - 5) As per XEmacs 21.[245].x.
norbert - XEmacs Package Release Manager.
Footnotes:
[1] Note: Mule packages should be installed into:
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/mule-packages/
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
iD8DBQFIEYgcgu3ywdHdhM0RAoasAKCpdAsmiMkFiQ6ZLAJSNlx62Y7D4QCfUCIE
WDIE66kt23pskn2sr9uewWA=
=X86h
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
_______________________________________________
XEmacs-Beta mailing list
XEmacs-Beta(a)xemacs.org
http://calypso.tux.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xemacs-beta
[Bug: 21.4.21] tex-file
16 years, 7 months
Anatoli Kheifets
Dear Bug Team,
I came across the following program on windows installation of
Xemacs 21.4.21
TeX mode commands tex-buffer, tex-region do not work
Error message displayed
Searching for program: No such file or directory, /bin/sh
On the other hand, shell command latex file.tex works OK
Please help!
Anatoli Kheifets <A.Kheifets(a)anu.edu.au>
PS The System Info is attached
System Info to help track down your bug:
---------------------------------------
OS version:
Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
OS: Windows_NT
XEmacs 21.4.21 "Educational Television" configured for `i586-pc-win32'.
Building XEmacs in "c:\\XEmacsBuild\\xemacs-21.4-2007-10-07\\nt".
Using compiler "cl -nologo -W3 -O2 -G5 -MD".
Installing XEmacs in "c:/XEmacsBuild/installed/2007-10-07/XEmacs-21.4.21".
Compiling in support for Microsoft Windows native GUI.
Compiling in support for XPM images.
Compiling in support for GIF images.
Compiling in support for PNG images.
Compiling in support for TIFF images.
Compiling in support for JPEG images.
Compiling in support for toolbars.
Compiling in support for dialogs.
Compiling in support for widgets.
Compiling in support for native sounds.
Compiling in fast dired implementation.
Using portable dumper.
Using system malloc.
Using DLL version of C runtime library
Load-Path Lisp Shadows:
----------------------
nil
Internationalization Settings:
-------------------------
Installed XEmacs Packages:
-------------------------
(xemacs-devel ver: 1.76 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(xemacs-base ver: 2.11 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(x-symbol ver: 1.1 upstream: 4.5.1)
(w3 ver: 1.33 upstream: 4.0pre47)
(vm ver: 7.22 upstream: 7.17)
(vc ver: 1.41 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(tm ver: 1.38 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(time ver: 1.14 upstream: 1.17)
(textools ver: 1.15 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(text-modes ver: 1.95 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(texinfo ver: 1.3 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(supercite ver: 1.21 upstream: 3.55x3)
(speedbar ver: 1.28 upstream: 0.14beta4)
(sounds-wav ver: 1.12 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(sieve ver: 1.18 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(sh-script ver: 1.22 upstream: 2.0f)
(semantic ver: 1.2 upstream: 1.4.4)
(sasl ver: 1.16 upstream: 1.14.4)
(rmail ver: 1.14 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(reftex ver: 1.34 upstream: 4.21)
(ps-print ver: 1.11 upstream: 6.5.6)
(prog-modes ver: 2.14 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(pgg ver: 1.06 upstream: 0.1)
(perl-modes ver: 1.1 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(pcl-cvs ver: 1.67 upstream: R-2_9_9)
(pc ver: 1.28 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(os-utils ver: 1.4 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(net-utils ver: 1.53 upstream: N/A)
(mmm-mode ver: 1.02 upstream: 0.4.7)
(mh-e ver: 1.29 upstream: 7.4.2)
(mailcrypt ver: 2.14 upstream: 3.5.8)
(mail-lib ver: 1.79 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(ispell ver: 1.32 upstream: 3.6)
(ilisp ver: 1.34 upstream: 5.12.0)
(hm--html-menus ver: 1.23 upstream: 5.9)
(gnus ver: 1.91 upstream: 5.10.8)
(fsf-compat ver: 1.15 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(fortran-modes ver: 1.05 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(eterm ver: 1.17 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(emerge ver: 1.11 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(elib ver: 1.11 upstream: 1.0)
(eieio ver: 1.05 upstream: 0.17)
(efs ver: 1.33 upstream: 1.23)
(edit-utils ver: 2.38 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(ediff ver: 1.71 upstream: 2.75)
(edebug ver: 1.22 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(ecrypto ver: 0.2 upstream: 2.0)
(ecb ver: 1.22 upstream: 2.31)
(dired ver: 1.17 upstream: 7.13)
(debug ver: 1.18 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(cc-mode ver: 1.45 upstream: 5.30.10)
(c-support ver: 1.22 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(bbdb ver: 1.32 upstream: 2.35)
(auctex ver: 1.48 upstream: 11.55)
(apel ver: 1.32 upstream: 10.6)
Features:
--------
(mail-abbrevs xemacsbug shadow sendmail rfc822 efs-cu info font-lock
cus-face xemacs-devel-autoloads xemacs-base-autoloads
x-symbol-autoloads w3-autoloads vm-autoloads vc-autoloads tm-autoloads
time-autoloads textools-autoloads text-modes-autoloads
texinfo-autoloads supercite-autoloads speedbar-autoloads
sounds-wav-autoloads sieve-autoloads sh-script-autoloads
semantic-autoloads sasl-autoloads rmail-autoloads reftex-autoloads
ps-print-autoloads prog-modes-autoloads pgg-autoloads
perl-modes-autoloads pcl-cvs-autoloads pc-autoloads os-utils-autoloads
net-utils-autoloads mmm-mode-autoloads mh-e-autoloads
mailcrypt-autoloads mail-lib-autoloads ispell-autoloads
ilisp-autoloads hm--html-menus-autoloads gnus-autoloads
fsf-compat-autoloads fortran-modes-autoloads eterm-autoloads
emerge-autoloads elib-autoloads eieio-autoloads efs-autoloads
edit-utils-autoloads ediff-autoloads edebug-autoloads
ecrypto-autoloads ecb-autoloads dired-autoloads debug-autoloads
cc-mode-autoloads c-support-autoloads bbdb-autoloads auctex-autoloads
apel-autoloads lisp-autoloads loadhist auto-show fontl-hooks code-cmds
gutter-items menubar-items x-menubar dragdrop mode-motion mouse itimer
auto-save lisp-mode easymenu iso8859-1 page buff-menu lib-complete
help-nomule cus-file derived frame text-props obsolete cus-start
custom widget cl-extra mini-cl cl cl-19 packages backquote
very-early-lisp file-coding mswindows-scrollbars mswindows toolbar
native-sound scrollbar network-streams subprocesses
menu-accelerator-support menubar md5 xemacs gutter tiff png gif jpeg
xpm xbm lisp-float-type windows-nt dragdrop-api dialog devices
window-system base64)
Recent keystrokes:
-----------------
button1 button1up misc-user button1 button1up RET misc-user
misc-user misc-user misc-user misc-user misc-user misc-user
misc-user misc-user misc-user misc-user misc-user misc-user
misc-user misc-user misc-user misc-user misc-user misc-user
misc-user misc-user misc-user misc-user misc-user misc-user
misc-user misc-user misc-user misc-user misc-user misc-user
misc-user misc-user misc-user misc-user misc-user misc-user
misc-user misc-user misc-user misc-user misc-user misc-user
misc-user misc-user misc-user misc-user misc-user misc-user
misc-user misc-user misc-user misc-user misc-user misc-user
misc-user misc-user C-s t e x C-s C-s C-s button1 button1up
button1 button1up button1 button1up button1 button1up
button1 button1up button1 button1up button1 button1up
button1 button1up misc-user
Recent messages (most recent first):
-----------------------------------
Loading xemacsbug...done
Loading xemacsbug...
Composing main Info directory...done
Rebuilding temporary c:\Program Files\XEmacs\XEmacs-21.4.21\info\dir...done
Rebuilding temporary c:\Program Files\XEmacs\XEmacs-21.4.21\info\dir...
Composing main Info directory...
Creating temporary dir in c:\Program Files\XEmacs\xemacs-packages\info\...done
Loading efs-cu...done
Loading efs-cu...
(New file)
Creating temporary dir in c:\Program Files\XEmacs\xemacs-packages\info\...
Loading info...done
Loading info...
Loading font-lock...done
Loading cus-face...done
Loading cus-face...
Loading font-lock...
_______________________________________________
XEmacs-Beta mailing list
XEmacs-Beta(a)xemacs.org
http://calypso.tux.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xemacs-beta
