The Festival Rag v01.02
11.03.2003
One of the principal reasons we started The Festival Rag was to create a platform where the voice of the truly independent filmmaker could be heard.
For our first issue we wanted someone who had been in the trenches and succeeded. We wanted someone who had struggled and continued because the struggle was also the reward. We wanted Ben Coccio, director of Zero Day. We approached Ben, asked him to write a first-person account of his "success story, the ups and …
[View More]downs." He replied immediately, said he'd love to.
A week later, there's a message on the Rag's voice mail of the fast-chatting Coccio.
"Hey it's Ben... And I, uh, hmmm... I'm enjoying writing this piece for your magazine but I feel like I'm taking the approach that you might not want to use, and you might not find helpful for your readers.... But I've been thinking about it and I feel that all filmmakers do it so differently. I mean, filmmakers get to a point where they've made a film, take it to festivals, and try to get distribution. The thing is, sometimes it has nothing to do with effort, or nothing to do with luck, even. It's weird but... But I think I have some other things to say..."
Below, the other things Ben wanted to say.
THE RAG MEGAPHONE
I am no expert. I am a novice, an acolyte. If you are embarking on a voyage similar to the one I started two years ago and you need some direction, I could delineate to you exactly how I made and got distribution for my no-budget feature Zero Day, but I don't think it would help. I did what anyone in my position would do - what anyone would do if they had no obvious assets at their disposal. All I've learned about the business is the scattergun approach to obtaining distribution. All I've learned about the craft is to do what makes sense. So let me instead say a little something about what I've learned. When it comes to the terra incognita of independent film, I will start by saying a good movie is a good movie. I am no fan of hair shirts, and I have never felt that budget - one way or the other - should be a factor in someone's appreciation of a good picture. If a big budget does not a good film make, then shouldn't it follow that a good movie made with little money is in no way holier than a good movie made with a lot of money?
I admit that a limited budget, like a limited palette, stretches the imagination and forces the filmmaker to chart a new course. But I have to be honest, after two years of navigating through everything myself in a rickety dinghy, I'm about ready to sell out and buy a huge yacht with a G.P.S. - if only someone would give me the opportunity.
Zero Day was my attempt to explore Columbine. It was shot on video with a first person narrative conceit as a collection of video diaries made by the killers-to-be over the course of a year while they plot and then execute their massacre.
When I set upon the course of the first person, Blair Witch-esque structure, I knew I was sailing into dangerous waters. Many friends warned me that it was a cheap, schlocky approach - that Blair Witch-type films had worn out their welcome with audiences, critics and cineastes, and that the comparisons could hurt my film. I didn't care. Obviously, limited resources forced my hand somewhat, but most importantly, I felt convinced that the method fit the madness to a tee.
I have noticed in the past few years that cinema has been exploring a neo-neo-realist ideal. Dogme 95, David Gordon Greene, Peter Sollett, and yes, "Blair Witch," just to name a few indie examples, spell out an interesting trend. I'm not sure what exactly it means (let film students of the year 2026 figure that one out), but I think it has something to do with this generation of filmmakers being so profoundly influenced by filmmakers who were so profoundly influenced by Italian Neo-Realism, the French New Wave and the like. I think it also has something to do with growing up in a culture steeped in media self-consciousness. It's not enough now, it seems, to have a movie feel real in its staging of events - it has to have the trappings of something we would watch on TV, something that actually is real.
Now, I'm getting into a Moebius strip of digression here, but take for example Schindler's List and Saving Private Ryan. Spielberg was born during World War II in a country that was fighting blood-and-guts battles around the world and, at the same time, was somehow paradoxically at arm's length from those horrors. Everything Spielberg's generation remembers about the war is from Movietone news footage and relatives' recollections. Normandy was a shaky set of half-ruined snapshots, Auschwitz was an after-the-fact black-and-white documentary commissioned by the U.S. Army.
Doesn't it make sense that his film about the Holocaust was shot in black-and-white and his film about combat in Europe was shot from the perspective of a war correspondent? Screened alongside films made by Europeans about the same events it's uncanny: compare Wajda's Kanali to Saving Private Ryan or Landscape After Battle to Schindler's List. I am not trying to diminish Spielberg's two movies - I love them - I am just trying to illustrate that America is a land of separation and alienation and that we make art about how we live.
I approached Zero Day in a way that I felt talked about that phenomenon of cultural separation and alienation at the same time that it dramatically interpreted the events at Columbine. I appropriated the cool, user-friendly, pop-culture Blair Witch approach (another movie that I love) and distorted it. Instead of a supernatural being made real, and hence more scary, I took a real scare and made it feel immediate and present and at the same time unapproachable and at arm's length. I also took a pulpy, exploitation-flick title to match my approach.
This, I felt, was the apex of independent filmmaking - right? Isn't that right? You use what you have, you approach something with a personal vision, and you try to say something smart in an interesting way. Isn't that the point of being an independent filmmaker?
Well let me tell you, during all of this - from making this thing to seeing it limp out into the world - I thought a lot about what the point of independent film is. Somewhere between what B-movies did for us as a culture and what the modern entertainment conglomerates monopolized came the idea of independent film. The power to pop the public in the puss, and to be cheap about it - to thumb your nose at the big boys and make a buck - that's the dream, isn't it?
Over the last thirteen years, the no-budget/no-star map of indie film became muddled to me. I had to discover a new definition. I decided indie flicks are movies made about things that studios can't or won't touch, in ways that studios won't or can't work. Well, two years on from the day I set sail, that doesn't really work for me either. When I started working on Zero Day, it was March of 2001. By the time I got distribution, Columbine had been tackled by "Law & Order," Showtime, Michael Moore and Gus Van Sant. And although these guys are not the Hollywood A-list, their ability to get attention for their work and to be backed by medium to large companies (United Artists, HBO, Fine Line) amounts to much the same thing to a max-out-the-credit-card-and-pray-for-rain guy like myself.
So what is independent film? It's like mercury - once it spills from the thermometer and onto the real world, it'll always slip from under your pointed finger. Nowadays, I don't care much for distinctions. I think the only thing that matters is making what you want to make any way you can. You can't expect special treatment just because you came out of nowhere and made your film cheaply. You can't demand attention just because you make a movie about something you think is off limits. You can't hope for an audience to grasp what you think is profound just because you played your movie at the Film Forum. I must have been very naïve when I set sail, and I wish I could say for sure that I am on a new track. As I venture into deeper waters, listing slightly, my journey towards becoming a filmmaker is far from its end. It's not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.
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THE SNOWBALL EFFECT
On April 1, 2004, the storybook village of Vail, Colorado will open its frost-covered doors to an expected mass of 40,000 avid moviegoers, critics and filmmakers for the first annual Vail Film Festival. In only four days, attendees will be bombarded by an onslaught of screen entertainment centered on 25 Features, 25 Shorts, 10 Documentaries, and 10 Student Films. The festival circuit is a pretty competitive one, but the VFF will burst onto it armed with two big innovations: a Television Pilots programme and the first-ever Gershwin Showcase. The latter is a short-film contest sponsored by the Gershwin Foundation, which is giving away music rights to songs from the catalogue of George and Ira Gershwin, in addition to awarding thousands of dollars in prize money.
Co-directors Denis Jensen and Sean & Scott Cross have watched their project gather major momentum on its downhill race from vision to reality this past year. They are all New York-based filmmakers and avid Vail skiers, with no prior experience in such an undertaking. From where they stand in their cramped New York City office, the festival seems to have been conjured out of thin mountain air.
"I think a lot of it had to do with timing," says Jensen. "We always kind of wondered, well, why isn't there a film festival in Vail? That evolved into talking to a number of community leaders. We were giving a presentation to the Vail town council and they stopped us midway through and said, 'This is just a slam dunk."' The idea went over very well and it literally snowballed from there."
The idea: Vail as an annual Mecca for innovative filmmaking.
"We didn't want to do just another big festival - like Sundance - but we also didn't want to reinvent the wheel," Jensen continues. "We're looking to keep it truly independent, with an emphasis on innovation."
One innovation has been adding TV pilots onto their festival slate. "One of our bigger goals is to do for television pilots what festivals have been doing for films the past thirty years," according to Jensen. The integration of this new category shines the spotlight on a seldom-recognized genre, to the benefit of visiting TV execs as well as regular moviegoers. As TV-pilot veterans know, works such as these see oblivion much more often
than they deserve.
The driving force behind the Vail Program came from director-writer Michael Nigro of Acme Pictures in New York. And though he is no longer working with the VFF, his creations remain. The most valuable of Nigro's innovations for the festival may be for the short films and his Gershwin Showcase, which is something of a mini film festival unto itself. The Showcase will benefit new
and poorly-heeled filmmakers with free-licensing for some of the well-known songs by legendary 1930s composers George and Ira Gershwin. In collaboration with LJ Strunsky of the Gershwin Foundation, the VFF has launched the Showcase with the intent of re-introducing the famous Gershwin sound to young, filmically hip audiences. More information can be found on the VFF website (www.vailfilmfestival.org) and on the Gershwin site, www.gershwin.com.
The VFF's other secret weapon is of course Vail itself. It's a small town that holds the largest resort in North America - a fact not wasted on the three co-directors. "We want people to really interact," says Sean Cross. Many screenings will take place at night, allowing attendees to make the most of Vail's considerable daytime charms. And throughout the four days, screenings will be accompanied by workshops and panel discussions, helmed by veteran indie producer and festival impresario Gil Holland.
But an indie film festival runs on indie films, not just a great venue. At the end of October, the VFF began accepting submissions, even in advance before the first official day of consideration (October 31st). Studio films, which often cruise the festival circuit in advance of widespread theatrical releases, will be considered alongside their distant low-budget cousins. All festival towns like publicity, and Vail is already known as a celebrity destination. Publicity will come to the bigger films by virtue of the big names attached to them. But the VFF directors have more on their minds.
"I think that there are only so many movies that can make it to mainstream theaters," Sean pointed out. "There are so many people out there making quality films that don't get to be seen. I think that's the true reason for these festivals and why audiences love to go. They get to see these little gems that they won't get to see anywhere else. People want to see unique perspectives."
As the VFF gains exposure in such a celebrity-conscious town, it will be a challenge to the three directors to hold fast to their own unique perspectives. Holding fast to their underground roots and innovative schemes, Jensen and the brothers Cross are unfazed: "We'd really like to perpetuate the momentum that independent cinema has right now," says Jensen. "We'd like to take that in slightly different directions, based on our vision. All of us come in as artists putting on a festival for artists. We're looking to mix things up a little bit."
- Daniel Wasserman
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RAG PROFILE
"Sorry, I flaked," filmmaker Mike Bencivenga says after forgetting to show up for our first interview. Well, I'm thinking, there's my angle, a scatter-brained filmmaker. But then again, knowing that Bencivenga writes from experience, and knowing that his two feature films contain people who are lost and seem to have no hope of being saved, my pre-conceived notion of him is, well, kinda pathetic. Sure, both of his films are classified as comedies, but the laughs are a mere façade, hiding tortured souls. When we finally meet a few days later, I'm expecting to shake hands with a brooding, melodramatic, scatter-brained "artiste." Anything but. Bencivenga greets me with smiles and exuberance, leading me to wonder: Is this art imitating life, this cheerful façade? No, this is a genuinely happy guy. But a guy still capable of delving into the twisted bowel of alcoholism and lost dreams at the center of his latest project, Happy Hour. The main character plumbs this depth completely during the course of the film.
"I am not that person," he says, laughing. "But I've had plenty of experience getting to know people in my life who are like that. Plenty self-destructive writers and people who struggle in New York with working a job during the day and writing at night. I am very familiar with wondering how you get that to work."
Happy Hour stars Anthony LaPaglia and Eric Stoltz as two friends, Tully and Levine, self-admitted "drinkers with a writing problem." They meet daily at their favorite bar to complain about jobs they hate and dreams they've left unrealized. LaPaglia shines as Tully, whose excessive drinking literally consumes his life, even as he blossoms in a love affair with a schoolteacher, played with grace and charm by Caroleen Feeney.
The film's intelligent script succeeds by delineating the two characters despite their similar artistic ambitions and after-work hobby of drinking. The character of Tully works as some kind of hero and as his own foil; he's an older version of Levine. As Tully's arc rises and falls, Levine measures him and watches what could well be his own future sitting and rotting beside him. It's a powerful combination and a difficult one to play well.
Bencivenga's ear for dialogue is laudable and, he admits, has been a focus since his years at NYU Film School. "Everyone wanted to be a director but very few people wanted to sit down and learn how to write. I had made a bunch of short films and documentaries and had directed plays but I wanted to learn to appreciate scripts."
Bencivenga won a Student Academy Award before NYU, at Adelphi University. He went on to write sketch comedy and to direct several short comedy films for HBO and Cinemax, before landing a steady gig at ABC News. He produced a full-length documentary with Yoko Ono, and won an Emmy for a show he created for "Frontline" on the Millennium celebration.
In 1993, Bencivenga's first feature, the micro-budget Losers In Love, won several festival prizes and got him a producing credit in the Independent Feature Project catalog. Richard Levine, a screenwriter in North Carolina, found him through "Losers" and sent him an early draft of Happy Hour. It wasn't long before they re-wrote the script together and Bencivenga agreed to direct. Through several indie connections, LaPaglia and Stoltz eventually signed on and Happy Hour was completed this past January. It is now playing film festivals across the country while its authors search for distribution.
Bencivenga tells me he's been culling his own life experiences for his next project, Single Bullet Theory. The title throws me and he adds, "No, I haven't killed anyone." Now it's me who's flaking: see, he's recently engaged and the story's about the "nature of love in the modern world." Talk about writing from the heart.
- Emmett Williams
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HOW TO SELL GOD, SEX & APPLE PIE
There is no definitive "How-To" book when it comes to making an indie film and finessing it into distribution. What works for one filmmaker may have failed dozens of others. Every filmmaker, successful or not, has his or her story that could fill a book. This is Jerome Courshon's Cliffs Notes version. As an aside, Jerome refused to reveal how many years this whole process took him. His response to the Rag when asked was, "More than I care to admit." Anyway, his long, strange trip started when he scripted his first feature, God, Sex & Apple Pie, and ends happily (I think we can say that) years later, since his comedy-drama, with no bankable names, has recently been picked up for distribution by Warner Bros. and is now seeing the light of day.
Many moons ago, I wrote a script called "God, Sex & Apple Pie," an ensemble comedy/drama about a group of friends over a holiday weekend. It wasn't The Big Chill. Or Indian Summer. It was what I wanted: a poignant look at the current generation (my generation), but with edge and depth. Though it was my first full-length screenplay, something told me I had to make it. I now think that that "something" was naivete, because I had no idea how to produce and soon discovered no one wanted to work with a first-time producer. Having now gone through this process, even I would be leery to work with a first-time producer. While searching for a producer with experience, I was also working to raise money. And failing at that too. After three years of looking for funds, I said "enough of this shit" and gave myself an ultimatum: If I didn't raise the capital in another six months, I would pull together whatever I could and just start shooting. Which is exactly what happened. What did I use for money? Why, Visa and Mastercard, of course. Twenty-six of them. But because I wanted this to be shot on 35mm, I only had enough lines of credit to get it in the can.
Before it was in the can, however, I had my share of problems: directors bowing out, an actor leaving two weeks before principal photography, losing our production manager two weeks before shooting. It's amazing I don't have gray hair.
Shot on location in Lake Tahoe, the 3-week shoot (3 six-day weeks) was not extremely problematic. That's a lie. There were a lot of problems, but nobody died and nothing burned down, so I consider that not extremely problematic.
Once wrapped and back to Los Angeles, the editing began - though I had no money left. Finding completion funding when the rough cuts are really rough is extremely difficult. Investors and distributors cannot extrapolate what your gem will look like when it's done. (Don't trust distributors who say they "can" - they cannot.)
After a significant passage of time I finally was able to raise the funds to get the movie finished. No, no more credit cards, but not for lack of trying. All my applications were rejected. With the movie completed I showed it to a few distributors, who all passed. The prevailing reason: no "stars" in the cast.
Another tactic: the film festival circuit and hoping to get into the top North American festivals where all distribution execs attend. That didn't happen and finding theatrical distribution was looking dim. Knowing that theatrical distributors only buy movies under certain, very specific conditions, I reconciled myself to developing a profile (press, reviews, festival awards, etc) for the movie while hitting the next level of film festivals. I figured when I was done, I might have a shot at something else, such as home video or cable. After God, Sex & Apple Pie began winning festival awards and critical praise, I decided to hold a big screening for all the major distributors in L.A. Distributors, I knew, do not buy movies this way, but I thought, "maybe it'll be different for me." It wasn't.
One year and eleven festivals later, I called it quits. I was burned out, and so far in debt it wasn't even remotely funny. A couple of drunken stupors and a month or two of rest later, I was back at it. I began to pitch all the home video companies, had a television sales rep pitch the cable companies with an astonishing result. Nearly everyone passed. A few bites from a couple video companies, but they couldn't commit. Now I was depressed.
I then came to the conclusion - the ultimate decision - that if this movie was ever going to see the light of day, I would have to open it theatrically in as many cities as I could. I felt this was the only shot I had at changing the movie's prospects. So, off I went to raise more money. Again!
Putting the movie into theatres yourself is, in fact, as hard as they say it is. But if "they" tell you not to do it, as some high level industry people told me - including one famous producer's rep (there's a character in a movie modeled after him) - ignore them. They're NOT filmmakers, and they DON'T have what you have on the line. You make the choice - don't let them make it for you. That said, four-walling God, Sex & Apple Pie took enormous time and energy and cash. And there's no point in just throwing your movie into a theatre and not supporting it. This really requires "working it."
Nevertheless, the theatrical exposure was providing some good reviews from recognizable film critics. This, along with positive festival press and awards, was the critical point which enabled me to finally make some distribution deals happen. I was able to close a Pay-Per-View deal, and found a contact to a company with a relationship with Warner Bros. Home Video, who are now distributing God, Sex & Apple Pie on home video and DVD.
The bottom line? Don't give up if you believe. If you've put years into your movie, what's a couple more? You've probably made enormous sacrifices to get your movie this far and into the festival circuit, you might as well keep going till you arrive at your finish line or wherever it is you want to go!
- Jerome Courshon
www.GodSexApplePie.com
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UPCOMING DEADLINES
The Sixth Annual Sarasota Film Festival: Jan 23 - Feb 1, 2004
So what if it's only their sixth year. It's one of our faves and you only have until November 7th to postmark your submission. The Sarasota Film Festival is a wonderful 10-day festival presenting a non-stop schedule of film premieres and screenings, symposiums, seminars, programming for students and families, community outreach events and, of course, parties.
www.sarasotafilmfestival.com
Short Comedies on Broadway
Have a funny short? Let New York's premiere comedy night club CAROLINES put it on Broadway for you.
Funny Film Shorts is a monthly festival, consistently screening the finest comedic short films from around the world. The next deadline is December 1.
The show sports a comedian host and an all-star panel, consisting of filmmakers, comics, and other industry professionals. For more info go to: www.carolines.com/filmshorts.html - however, we kind of like Brandon Mikolaski's snappy e-mail answers, so click here and email him for further info: bmikolaski(a)carolines.com
Finding Nemo in France
You want to find Nemo? Go to France. Hey, we're not kidding. The Nemo Festival in Paris, France is dedicated only to the experimental image. This program is so dang flexible it'd make a dog cleaning itself jealous. Interactive documentaries and fictions, video art, 2D/3D computer graphics, motion graphic design, music videos, electronic visual effects, installations, 'Net art, audiovisual performances, as well as innovative classic narrative cinema. The next festival runs March 9 to 14, 2004. Deadline: December 18, 2003.
www.festivalnemo.com
Cinema Epicuria at Sonoma's Best Film Festival
Filmmakers, if there's one festival you want to get into it's the Sonoma Valley Film Festival. No pretension, no Hollywood B.S. But, lord, the food, the wine, the friendly Sonomans (as opposed to the abominable Sonomans) (seriously), and a killer film program. There's wine served at every meal and for some reason you have 10 meals a day while there. So lie, cheat, steal, make friends with festival programmer Chris Gore, or just make a great film and you'll be in good company.
The 7th annual Sonoma Valley Film Festival is set for April 1-4, 2004. Deadline: December 31, 2003.
www.sonomafilmfest.org
Five'll Get You In: William Bonney's Picture Show
We'll freely admit it. We don't know much about William Bonney's Picture Show. But from the literature we've read it sounds good. This aptly named Picture Show is an ongoing festival of short- and medium-length works from around the world with a mandate to share revenue from the door with all participating filmmakers. The Rag senses a new festival trend here; more and more festivals have been doing this.
Their entry fees are currently $5 to $7 - designed with one thing in mind: to be affordable, fair, and respectful to the filmmaker. The WBPS believes (we know they believe this because it says so in their website) that many festival and screening entry fees are just plain excessive, especially for emerging filmmakers with little or no PR or festival budgets. Festival deadline, January 1, 2004.
www.camerado.com/picture_show.html
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CALL TO FILMMAKERS
The Festival Rag wants to hear from you. We're your megaphone!
Got a story idea? Want some exposure? Wanna get famous? Need someone to translate Aramaic poetry? Pitch the editorial backbone of the Rag : Dave Roberts (dave(a)kemek.com) or Gil Ripley (gil(a)kemek.com)!
============================
"COULD BE THE BEST MARKETING TOOL FOR THE INDEPENDENT FILM COMMUNITY EVER!"
- overheard, speaking to mirror: Markus Varjo, Co-Publisher, The Festival Rag
The Festival Rag, a new online periodical dedicated to true independent filmmaking and filmmakers is broadcast to thousands of media-industry subscribers. If you need to reach young, tech savvy, independent filmmakers and those who support them, let us be your conduit - we distribute the Rag to nearly 30K subscribers in the industry.
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Dear Bug Team!
i have some _intermittent_ prob with jka-compr - if i visit a
compressed file, most of the times all it's well, but sometimes i have
a warning from jka-compr:
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
Error while executing "gzip -c -q -d < /usr/share/doc/python-docutils/pep-0256.txt.gz"
gzip: stdin: unexpected end of file
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^…
[View More]^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
and the file is truncated
notes:
1. if i use exactly the same command that jka-compr uses (see above)
from the shell prompt, what i see on stdout is the whole file,
correctly decompressed
2. i suppose that jka-compr does its own error handling (?), because i
cannot have a lisp bt when i set the appropriate vars to 't
3. below you'll find a) the end of the buffer, with the truncated file, b) the
part of the decompressed file corresponding to the truncation
let me know if i can provide further info
hth, ciao
gb
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
.. _Javadoc: http://java.sun.com/j2se/javadoc/
.. _Autoduck:
http://www.helpmaster.com/hlp-developmentaids-autoduck.htm
.. _Web: http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/cweb.html
.. _[NO NEWLINE HERE]
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
.. _Javadoc: http://java.sun.com/j2se/javadoc/
.. _Autoduck:
http://www.helpmaster.com/hlp-developmentaids-autoduck.htm
.. _Web: http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/cweb.html
.. _doc.py:
http://www.lemburg.com/files/python/SoftwareDescriptions.html#doc.py
.. _pythondoc:
.. _gendoc: http://starship.python.net/crew/danilo/pythondoc/
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
================================================================
System Info to help track down your bug:
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uname -a: Linux boffi95 2.2.21 #1 Wed Jul 17 12:52:48 CEST 2002 i586 GNU/Linux
./configure '--extra-verbose' '--rel-alloc' '--with-widgets' '--with-athena=3d' '--debug' '--pdump' '--with-wmcommand' '--with-sound=no' '--error-checking=all'
XEmacs 21.5-b16 "celeriac" (+CVS-20031031) configured for `i586-pc-linux'.
Compilation / Installation:
Source code location: /home/gb/blackstar/src/xemacs-21.5
Installation prefix: /usr/local
Operating system description file: `s/linux.h'
Machine description file: `m/intel386.h'
Compiler: gcc -Wall -Wno-switch -Winline -Wmissing-prototypes -Wsign-compare -Wundef -Wstrict-prototypes -Wpacked -Wshadow -Wmissing-declarations -g -O3
Relocating allocator for buffers: yes
GNU version of malloc: yes
- Using Doug Lea's new malloc from the GNU C Library.
Window System:
Compiling in support for the X window system:
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- X Windows libraries location: /usr/X11R6/lib
- Handling WM_COMMAND properly.
Compiling in support for the Athena widget set:
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- Athena library to link: Xaw3d
Using Lucid menubars.
Using Lucid scrollbars.
Using Athena dialog boxes.
Using Athena native widgets.
TTY:
Compiling in support for ncurses.
Compiling in support for GPM (General Purpose Mouse).
Images:
Compiling in support for GIF images (builtin).
Compiling in support for XPM images.
Compiling in support for PNG images.
Compiling in support for JPEG images.
Compiling in support for TIFF images.
Compiling in support for X-Face message headers.
Sound:
Databases:
Internationalization:
Mail:
Compiling in support for "dot-locking" mail spool file locking method.
Other Features:
Inhibiting IPv6 canonicalization at startup.
Compiling in support for dynamic shared object modules.
Using the new portable dumper.
Compiling in support for extra debugging code.
WARNING: ---------------------------------------------------------
WARNING: Compiling in support for runtime error checking.
WARNING: XEmacs will run noticeably more slowly as a result.
WARNING: Error checking is on by default for XEmacs beta releases.
WARNING: ---------------------------------------------------------
Load-Path Lisp Shadows:
----------------------
(/home/gb/lib/emacs/test/db-util
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/site-lisp/edb/db-util
/home/gb/lib/emacs/test/db-types
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/site-lisp/edb/db-types
/home/gb/lib/emacs/test/db-two-dbs
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/site-lisp/edb/db-two-dbs
/home/gb/lib/emacs/test/db-time
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/site-lisp/edb/db-time
/home/gb/lib/emacs/test/db-tagged
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/site-lisp/edb/db-tagged
/home/gb/lib/emacs/test/db-summary
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/site-lisp/edb/db-summary
/home/gb/lib/emacs/test/db-sort
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/site-lisp/edb/db-sort
/home/gb/lib/emacs/test/db-search
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/site-lisp/edb/db-search
/home/gb/lib/emacs/test/db-rep
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/site-lisp/edb/db-rep
/home/gb/lib/emacs/test/db-rdb
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/site-lisp/edb/db-rdb
/home/gb/lib/emacs/test/db-isbn
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/site-lisp/edb/db-isbn
/home/gb/lib/emacs/test/db-interfa
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/site-lisp/edb/db-interfa
/home/gb/lib/emacs/test/db-format
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/site-lisp/edb/db-format
/home/gb/lib/emacs/test/db-file-io
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/site-lisp/edb/db-file-io
/home/gb/lib/emacs/test/db-convert
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/site-lisp/edb/db-convert
/home/gb/lib/emacs/test/database
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/site-lisp/edb/database /home/gb/lib/emacs/man
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/edit-utils/man
/home/gb/lib/emacs/align
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/edit-utils/align
/home/gb/lib/emacs/htmlize
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/text-modes/htmlize)
Installed XEmacs Packages:
-------------------------
((xemacs-devel:version 1.59 :type single-file)
(xemacs-base :version 1.81 :type regular)
(x-symbol :version 1.07 :author-version "4.5.1" :type regular)
(w3 :version 1.28 :type regular)
(vm :version 7.17 :type regular)
(tramp :version 1.16 :type regular)
(textools :version 1.14 :type regular)
(text-modes :version 1.69 :author-version "" :type single-file)
(texinfo :version 1.24 :type regular)
(sh-script :version 1.17 :type regular)
(reftex :version 1.32 :type regular)
(python-modes :version 1.02 :type single-file)
(ps-print :version 1.08 :type regular)
(prog-modes :version 1.9 :author-version "" :type single-file)
(perl-modes :version 1.04 :type single-file)
(os-utils :version 1.33 :type single-file)
(net-utils :version 1.32 :type single-file)
(mailcrypt :version 2.12 :type regular)
(mail-lib :version 1.62 :type regular)
(ispell :version 1.24 :type regular)
(hm--html-menus :version 1.22 :type regular)
(gnus :version 1.73 :type regular)
(fsf-compat :version 1.12 :type single-file)
(fortran-modes :version 1.02 :type single-file)
(footnote :version 1.15 :type regular)
(efs :version 1.31 :type regular)
(edit-utils :version 2.09 :author-version "" :type single-file)
(ediff :version 1.48 :type regular)
(ecrypto :version 0.13 :type regular)
(ecb :version 1.12 :type regular)
(dired :version 1.14 :type regular)
(debug :version 1.16 :type regular)
(cookie :version 1.14 :type regular)
(cc-mode :version 1.4 :type regular)
(calendar :version 1.21 :type regular)
(calc :version 1.23 :type regular)
(bbdb :version 1.23 :type regular)
(auctex :version 1.35 :type regular))
Installed Modules:
-----------------
Features:
--------
(xemacsbug shadow cc-mode cc-fonts cc-menus cc-cmds cc-styles cc-align
cc-engine cc-vars cc-defs regexp-opt ps-print dired-shell info shell
cperl-mode fortran dired-faces dired-xemacs dired picture xpm-mode
sh-script skeleton executable tar-mode sort gnus-cite mail-extr
gnus-bcklg gnus-async byte-optimize bytecomp byte-compile gnus-ml
gnus-topic nndoc nndraft nnmh efs-cu gnus-agent gnus-srvr gnus-score
score-mode nnvirtual gnus-msg gnus-art mm-uu mml2015 gpg timer mm-view
gnus-sum gnus-group gnus-undo nntp nnoo nnmail mail-source format-spec
gnus-cache uboat gnus-start gnus-spec gnus-int gnus-range message mml
mml-sec mml-smime smime comint ring dig mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode
mailcap lpr mail-parse rfc2045 rfc2231 rfc2047 qp ietf-drums
mail-abbrevs sendmail rfc822 mailheader canlock gnus-win gnus gnus-ems
gnus-xmas wid-edit gnuserv font disp-table func-menu bbdb timezone
font-lock cus-face jka-compr tex-site smiley annotations messagexmas
nnheader nnheaderxm gnus-util netrc time-date parse-time mm-util
mail-prsvr mail-utils x-compose filladapt image-mode view-less view
xemacs-devel-autoloads xemacs-base-autoloads x-symbol-autoloads
w3-autoloads vm-autoloads tramp-autoloads textools-autoloads
text-modes-autoloads texinfo-autoloads sh-script-autoloads
reftex-autoloads python-modes-autoloads ps-print-autoloads
prog-modes-autoloads perl-modes-autoloads os-utils-autoloads
net-utils-autoloads mailcrypt-autoloads mail-lib-autoloads
ispell-autoloads hm--html-menus-autoloads gnus-autoloads
fsf-compat-autoloads fortran-modes-autoloads footnote-autoloads
efs-autoloads edit-utils-autoloads ediff-autoloads ecrypto-autoloads
ecb-autoloads dired-autoloads debug-autoloads cookie-autoloads
cc-mode-autoloads calendar-autoloads calc-autoloads bbdb-autoloads
auctex-autoloads modules-autoloads auto-autoloads loadhist rsz-minibuf
auto-show fontl-hooks x-iso8859-1 code-cmds gutter-items menubar-items
x-menubar mode-motion mouse behavior itimer auto-save lisp-mode
easymenu iso8859-1 page buff-menu lib-complete cus-file derived
newcomment env text-props frame obsolete cus-start custom widget
cl-extra mini-cl cl cl-19 packages backquote unicode lucid-scrollbars
cut-buffer lucid-menubars athena-dialogs x c-balloon-help tty-frames
tty toolbar scrollbar unix-processes multicast network-streams
subprocesses modules menu-accelerator-support menubar md5 xemacs
gutter tiff png gif jpeg xface xpm xbm lisp-float-type file-coding
linux dialog devices window-system base64)
Recent keystrokes:
-----------------
next next next next next next next next next next next
prior prior prior C-x k RET down down down down up
up up RET C-x k RET y e s RET RET C-x k RET y e s RET
M C-g misc-user RET misc-user misc-user C-x k RET C-x
k RET C-x k RET y e s RET C-x o C-x k RET C-x k RET
button1 button1up button1 button1up button1 button1up
button1 button1up button1 button1up button1 button1up
button1 button1up button1 button1up misc-user button1
button1up down RET button1 button1up button1 button1up
C-x k RET y e s RET misc-user
Recent messages (most recent first):
-----------------------------------
Parsing /home/gb/.mailrc... done
Parsing /home/gb/.mailrc...
Loading xemacsbug...done
Loading xemacsbug...
File exists, but cannot be read.
unzipping pep-0256.txt.gz...
Loading cl-macs...done
Loading cl-macs...
File exists, but cannot be read.
unzipping pep-0256.txt.gz...
Quit
File exists, but cannot be read.
unzipping pep-0256.txt.gz...
File exists, but cannot be read.
unzipping pep-0256.txt.gz...
Buffer is read-only: #<buffer "notes.txt.gz">
Note: file is write protected
unzipping notes.txt.gz...done
unzipping notes.txt.gz...
Note: file is write protected
[View Less]
I did try to eliminate Motif support, but I missed XIM. Your suggestion of disabling it worked like a charm.
Thanks for the quick and helpful response!
Barnabas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen(a)xemacs.org>
Date: Tuesday, November 4, 2003 0:42 am
Subject: Re: [Bug: 21.4.14] Segfault closing frame with system widgets
> >>>>> "Barnabas" == Barnabas Wolf <barnabas.wolf(a)mssm.edu> writes:
>
> Barnabas> ./…
[View More]configure '--with-dialogs=athena' '--with-
> widgets=athena' Barnabas> '--with-mule'
>
> Barnabas> Compiling in support for Motif.
> Barnabas> *WARNING* Many versions of Motif are buggy, [...]
> Barnabas> You are likely to experience slow
> redisplay. Barnabas> You may need to install
> vendor patches to Motif.
>
> We aren't kidding. This is obviously our fault, though.
>
> Barnabas> Compiling in support for XIM (X11R5+ I18N input
> method). Barnabas> - Using Motif to provide XIM support.
>
> Try adding --with-xim=no (recommended if you don't know what XIM is)
> or --with-xim=xlib to the configure line.
>
> I think this bug in configure will be fixed in 21.4.15 (not yet
> released).
>
>
> --
> Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences
> http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jpUniversity of Tsukuba
> Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
> Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
> ask what your business can "do for" free software.
>
[View Less]
Building xemacs hangswhen using -fpie: (in addition to exec-shield
non-executable stuff, this adds "randomize location in memory" support)
./xemacs -nd -no-packages -batch -l /home/valdis/src/xemacs-21.5/src/../lisp/update-elc.el
#0 0x080c1d4b in grow_specpdl (reserved=1) at eval.c:5723
#1 0x080c20d4 in record_unwind_protect (function=0, arg=0) at eval.c:5856
#2 0x080c2252 in record_unwind_protect_restoring_int (addr=0x81fe174, val=0) at eval.c:5937
#3 0x080c227e in internal_bind_int (…
[View More]addr=0x81fe174, newval=0) at eval.c:5950
#4 0x0808ffd3 in begin_gc_forbidden () at alloc.c:4335
#5 0x080b0b34 in emacs_vsprintf_string (
format=0x81c6460 "%s\nKilling some buffers may delay running out of memory.\nHowever, certainly by the time you receive the 95%% warning,\nyou should clean up, kill this Emacs, and start a new one.",
vargs=0xbff16858 "�\215\036\b��\037\b|h���i\e\b�\215\036\b\225�\025") at doprnt.c:822
#6 0x080c2ba8 in warn_when_safe (class_=0, level=0,
fmt=0x81c6460 "%s\nKilling some buffers may delay running out of memory.\nHowever, certainly by the time you receive the 95%% warning,\nyou should clean up, kill this Emacs, and start a new one.") at eval.c:6402
#7 0x0808c660 in malloc_warning (str=0x81e8da0 "Warning: past 75% of memory limit") at alloc.c:266
#8 0x081b69a8 in check_memory_limits () at vm-limit.c:105
#9 0x00430344 in sYSMALLOc () from /lib/tls/libc.so.6
#10 0x0042d10d in malloc () from /lib/tls/libc.so.6
#11 0x0808c72a in xmalloc (size=1) at alloc.c:331
#12 0x0808df84 in allocate_string_chars_struct (string_it_goes_with=0, fullsize=24) at alloc.c:2076
#13 0x0808e0e2 in make_uninit_string (length=17) at alloc.c:2130
#14 0x0808e724 in make_string (contents=0x81cffe3 "extent-mouse-face", length=17) at alloc.c:2428
#15 0x08177280 in intern_int (str=0x81cffe3 "extent-mouse-face") at symbols.c:191
#16 0x0817729b in intern (str=0x81cffe3 "extent-mouse-face") at symbols.c:197
#17 0x0817a2ec in defsubr (subr=0x81f0128) at symbols.c:3507
#18 0x080e1536 in syms_of_extents () at extents.c:7339
#19 0x080b854c in xemacs_21_5_b16_i686_pc_linux (argc=6, argv=0xbff16ac4, envp=0xbff16ae0, restart=0)
at emacs.c:1268
#20 0x080b9578 in main (argc=0, argv=0x0, envp=0x0) at emacs.c:2865
#21 0x003d3750 in __libc_start_main () from /lib/tls/libc.so.6
#22 0x0808aed1 in _start ()
Immediate cause of the problem:
while (specpdl_size < size_needed)
{
specpdl_size *= 2;
if (specpdl_size > max_specpdl_size)
specpdl_size = max_specpdl_size;
}
We go into here with specpdl_size=0 and size_needed=1. Infloop.
Not sure yet why -fpie causes this state of affairs. Probably has
to do with the check in vm-limit.c:check_memory_limits - I suspect
that the calculation of 'cp' and 'data_size' is getting b0rked when
we're using address space randomization.
[View Less]
`insert-file-contents-internal' is expected to use its `codesys' arg.
This argument is normally created when `insert-file-contents' tries
various ways of determining file coding system, including
`insert-file-contents-pre-hook' call.
`insert-file-contents-internal' may call filename hanlders obtained by
`Ffind_file_name_handler (filename, Qinsert_file_contents)' call.
Such handlers are established by remote file access packages like efs.
In this case the `handler' call replaces most of …
[View More]processing normally
done by `insert-file-contents-internal' itself, including that of
`codesys'.
But this argument is never passed to `handler' and thus discarded.
Handler may even call `insert-file-contents' recursively, which in
turn will trigger file coding determining again, with
`insert-file-contents-pre-hook' call. So many unnecessary
`insert-file-contents-pre-hook' calls may be done on the same file.
There may be 2 of them if both efs and dired are loaded.
This complicates `insert-file-contents-pre-hook' functions which do
some expensive processing. They have to ensure that they work in
exactly one of such a calls. In particular, when they check file
data, the file should be a local one, perhaps a temporary one
previously downloaded by filename handler from efs or like.
When they do check *only* file data, this is ok. But if they wish to
check file name also, this complicates things. Normally what should
be checked is original, user specified file name. So hook functions
complicate even more, to check (or even save for future processing)
file name in first of its (recursive) calls and check file data in the
last one.
Is there any guidelines for writing `insert-file-contents-pre-hook' to
avoid such complications?
[View Less]
When are CVS nightly snapshots going to come back to life? The last
one seems to have been done in April.
'james
--
James A. Crippen <james at unlambda.com> Lambda Unlimited
61.2204N, -149.8964W Recursion 'R' Us
Anchorage, Alaska, USA, Earth Y = \f.(\x.f(xx))(\x.f(xx))