April 1999 - XEmacs-Beta - XEmacs Mailing List Archives

Re: change \C-m binding to newline-and-indent 25 years, 8 months

Tor Arntsen

On Apr 1, 18:12, Didier Verna wrote: >Colin Rafferty writes: > >Colin> (global-set-key [(return)] 'newline-and-indent) > > Oaow ... > > But sometimes, you _don't_ want to indent. In C, for instance, you >might want to make a few blank lines before the next line of code. And you >don't want them to be indented because otherwise, Martin is going to send a >mega-patch to correct this ;-) But it doesn't insert any spaces unless you type something on those lines.. The cursor moves down at the right indentation but when you check afterwards there are no spaces there (just type something and then move up, the cursor goes to the far left, and no spaces if you examine the file with some other tool either). Am I misunderstanding something? - Tor

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Re: change \C-m binding to newline-and-indent 25 years, 8 months

Colin Rafferty

Oliver Graf writes: > Colin Rafferty <craffert(a)ms.com> writes: >> (global-set-key [(return)] 'newline-and-indent) >> (global-set-key [(linefeed)] 'newline) > [In Python mode] ... I did not feel this behaviour as unnatural, so > I think I like it. One person who won't complain. I'm glad to know that I'm not completely insane. >> Does anyone disagree? > Nope. [but this may actually start a kind of delete/backspace discussion and > may end in some theme -- the 'smart' theme ;-) -- or it ends on the custom > group with all those options we can not decide on.] I don't think that this is the same as backspace/delete. The issue the delete-key-deletes-forward haters had was that they didn't want the "key above <enter>" to delete forwards on any keyboard. If I were suggesting that <enter> should run `open-line', then I could see a similar battle (with no one on my side). -- Colin

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Re: change \C-m binding to newline-and-indent 25 years, 8 months

Colin Rafferty

Didier Verna writes: > Colin Rafferty writes: Colin> (global-set-key [(return)] 'newline-and-indent) > But sometimes, you _don't_ want to indent. In C, for instance, you > might want to make a few blank lines before the next line of code. The first line in `newline-and-indent': (delete-region (point) (progn (skip-chars-backward " \t") (point))) So when you just hit return to move through the lines, only the last line is indented (the one that you end up on). > And you don't want them to be indented because otherwise, Martin is > going to send a mega-patch to correct this ;-) Now he will never need to, since `newline-and-indent' removes all trailing whitespace from the lines that you leave. > Making people oblidged to use C-j instead of Return to simply go to > the next line is too much to ask, I think. I see it the other way around. 99% of the time that you hit <return> when writing code, the next key that you type is <tab>. And anyway, when you end up on the line that you want, it will already be indented according to your defaults. -- Colin

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Re: change \C-m binding to newline-and-indent 25 years, 8 months

Oliver Graf

Colin Rafferty <craffert(a)ms.com> writes: > (global-set-key [(return)] 'newline-and-indent) > (global-set-key [(linefeed)] 'newline) > > I cannot understand anyone who does not also have this. It does the > right thing everywhere. In source buffers, it indents properly. In > non-source buffers, it indents properly (i.e. not at all). I don't use these bindings, but the most things I programmed the last months were python apps. In python-mode the return key will also automatically indent. I did not feel this behaviour as unnatural, so I think I like it. > I propose that we make a change for the better. We should change one > of the most used keys on the keyboard to a smarter and more functional > binding. > > Does anyone disagree? Nope. [but this may actually start a kind of delete/backspace discussion and may end in some theme -- the 'smart' theme ;-) -- or it ends on the custom group with all those options we can not decide on.] Regards, Oliver.

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Re: change \C-m binding to newline-and-indent 25 years, 8 months

Colin Rafferty

Valdis Kletnieks writes: > On 01 Apr 1999 10:31:25 EST, you said: >> (global-set-key [(return)] 'newline-and-indent) >> (global-set-key [(linefeed)] 'newline) > ... >> Does anyone disagree? > "But how do I undent? M-\ > I've always hit return and then indented to > where I want to - now it's Going Too Damned Far sometimes". > There *are* people who hit return, and then hit 2/4/6/8/etc spaces. In my travels to various companies, I've never seen programmers who indented with the space key (unless they were vi people). Maybe I was lucky, or maybe my being there got them to ask how to set up their cc-mode style correctly. For those who think that it's gone too far, they can backspace (or delete) to where they like. In cc-mode, it will convert tabs to eight spaces before backspacing over a tab. In Lisp, it won't, but we can change BS in lisp-mode to be bound to `backward-delete-char-untabify' if we really wanted. > Oh.. you can't say "linefeed" in your explanation either - my keyboard > doesn't HAVE a 'linefeed' key. Oops, neither does mine. The answer, of course, is C-j, though it's not that obvious to non-computer people. > (Yes, I'm being pendantic. Yes, I think the change is The Way It Should Be. > No, I don't think we should make it unless we address the re-education issue). I really think that the bulk of the users will say, "Cool, this works the way that it should." For those that don't, we will need to answer their questions. I'm not sure how easily to do this, since no one reads NEWS. Maybe if I promise to spend a lot of time on comp.emacs.xemacs? -- Colin

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Re: change \C-m binding to newline-and-indent 25 years, 8 months

Didier Verna

Colin Rafferty writes: Colin> (global-set-key [(return)] 'newline-and-indent) Oaow ... But sometimes, you _don't_ want to indent. In C, for instance, you might want to make a few blank lines before the next line of code. And you don't want them to be indented because otherwise, Martin is going to send a mega-patch to correct this ;-) Making people oblidged to use C-j instead of Return to simply go to the next line is too much to ask, I think. -- / / _ _ Didier Verna http://www.inf.enst.fr/~verna/ - / / - / / /_/ / E.N.S.T. INF C201.1 mailto:verna＠inf.enst.fr /_/ / /_/ / /__ / 46 rue Barrault Tel. (33) 01 45 81 73 46 75634 Paris cedex 13 Fax. (33) 01 45 81 31 19

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Re: forms.el fix for XEmacs 21.0 25 years, 8 months

Tudor Hulubei

On Wed, 31 March 1999, Johan Vromans wrote: > This fix is already in the GNU Emacs codeline. Also, your line numbers > are very different from mine. What version of forms.el are you using? > Can you sync with the GNU Emacs codeline? The version I have from the XEmacs CVS tree is 2.10. On , 1 April 1999, Hrvoje Niksic wrote: > This will work, but wouldn't it be better to change to > (format " %d/%d" forms--current-record forms--total-records). I fixed that, as well as a few other minor things (like the use of setq instead of add-hook/remove-hook for adding/removing hooks). I grabbed the latest version from the GNU machines (2.37) and I have re-ported the XEmacs specific changes from 2.10 to 2.37. It would be very helpful if Johan could double-check the changes I've made and integrate them in his version of forms.el, so that further syncs with GNU Emacs would be easier. I've tried to unify the use of forms-use-extents forms-use-text-properties to hide somehow the differences between GNU Emacs and XEmacs. These variables are now computed as before _only_ if forms-use-colors (for the lack of a better name) is set to t. So, forms.el will use extents or text properties (depending on the Emacs version) only if this is t. I'll send a patch against 2.10 to xemacs-beta and one against 2.37 to Johan. Thanks, Tudor

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つくば Pictures 25 years, 8 months

Oliver Graf

Hi guys! I'm currently setting up a webpage with all the pictures of our journey to japan. Is there anyone who does not want to show up on the pictures? If yes, I will drop or blur (they are blurred anyway ;-) ) the pictures where those persons can be seen. Regards, Oliver.

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Re: completion-ignored-extensions 25 years, 8 months

Didier Verna

Stephen J Turnbull writes: Stephen> However what could be done easily enough (I think) is to create a Stephen> Custom "Variables That There Is No Consensus Default For" group. For Stephen> this kind of variable, if you wanted to add TeX extensions to the Stephen> ignored extensions, you would add a checkbox widget to its Custom Stephen> widget list. I'm not sure I understand you well there, but it seems that what you mean is something like what gnus does for some hooks (like gnus-group-mode-hook where you have a predefined toggle for gnus-topic-mode) ? I don't think that's quite the point however, because if you do this, there's still going to be a war on the question of knowing whether, say, the .idx toggle should be on or off by default. IMHO, adding a predefined toggle for it might be a convenience, but that's all. This problem actually makes me think of a more powerfull mechanism that could be nice to have: something like an extension priority sorting. What I'd actually like to have is the following: - C-x C-f <some text> - TAB <xemacs pops up a buffer with possible completions> - and then, successive TABs (which doesn't change the completions) complete the minibuffer with the possible values in an order that you have the possibility to customize. -- / / _ _ Didier Verna http://www.inf.enst.fr/~verna/ - / / - / / /_/ / E.N.S.T. INF C201.1 mailto:verna＠inf.enst.fr /_/ / /_/ / /__ / 46 rue Barrault Tel. (33) 01 45 81 73 46 75634 Paris cedex 13 Fax. (33) 01 45 81 31 19

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Re: completion-ignored-extensions 25 years, 8 months

Didier Verna

John H Palmieri writes: John> Also, if I start up a vanilla XEmacs and do John> M-x customize-variable completion-ignored-extensions John> why am I told John> [State]: this option has been changed outside the customize buffer. This is because completion-ignored-extensions is defined at the C level, and there's a setq on it in loaddefs.el -- / / _ _ Didier Verna http://www.inf.enst.fr/~verna/ - / / - / / /_/ / E.N.S.T. INF C201.1 mailto:verna＠inf.enst.fr /_/ / /_/ / /__ / 46 rue Barrault Tel. (33) 01 45 81 73 46 75634 Paris cedex 13 Fax. (33) 01 45 81 31 19

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XEmacs-Beta April 1999