March 1999 - XEmacs-Beta - XEmacs Mailing List Archives

Distribution Build Report for XEmacs-21.0.66 25 years, 8 months

Steven Baur

Greetings XEmacs beta testers. I am in the process of building the next distribution of XEmacs 21.0. I have tested the attached configuration. Sincerely, The XEmacs Build 'Bot -- uname -a: BSD/OS camelot-soft.camelot-soft.com 3.0 BSDI BSD/OS 3.0 Kernel #0: Thu Jul 17 23:30:01 PDT 1997 root＠camelot-soft.camelot-soft.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/CAMELOT i386 ./configure '--prefix=/usr/home/steveb/staging' '--cflags=-O' '--with-mule' '--without-x11' '--debug=no' '--error-checking=none' XEmacs 21.0-b66 "20 minutes to Nikko" configured for `i386-pc-bsdi3.0'. Where should the build process find the source code? /usr/home/steveb/staging/xemacs-21.0 What installation prefix should install use? /usr/home/steveb/staging What operating system and machine description files should XEmacs use? `s/bsdos3.h' and `m/intel386.h' What compiler should XEmacs be built with? gcc -O Should XEmacs use the GNU version of malloc? yes Should XEmacs use the relocating allocator for buffers? yes What window system should XEmacs use? none Compiling in native sound support. Compiling in support for Berkeley DB. Compiling in support for GNU DBM. Compiling in Mule (multi-lingual) support. Compiling in DLL support. movemail will use "flock" for locking mail spool files.

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Re: [21.0, repost with more Rationale] Mix X resources with Custom 25 years, 8 months

Karl M. Hegbloom

I've also noticed that the modeline faces don't correctly inherit from the top modeline face... they seem to inherit from default face.

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Re: Not autosaving when SIGHUP?? 25 years, 8 months

Jan Vroonhof

karl(a)cathcart.sysc.pdx.edu (Karl M. Hegbloom) writes: > I think that XEmacs 21.2 isn't autosaving when it's signalled. Will > someone else please test this? I discovered it when an unmapped > XEmacs' gnuserv died. The autosaving int the fatal error handler was turned off. The reasoning was that if you get SIGSEGV you do not want to overwrite your valid autosaves with freshly corrupted data. However on SIGPPIPE and SIGHUP (and maybe others) there should be no reason not do the autosaves. Jan

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Re: Backspace direction reversion 25 years, 8 months

Jan Vroonhof

Please, Guys. Let's get NOT get emotional about this please! (It must be the spring air. There is even an endiannes flamewar on linux-kernel). > SL> right of the keyboard and getting help sucks. I think we should be > SL> conservative about it and leave the setting as it is in 21.0. It is a > SL> lot safer, IMO. Personally i think we have been conservative about it way too long. We really should have done it for 21.0 because we had a good reason then: The NT port (which is a good justification) and a major version number increase. The argument _against_ doing it in 21.0 (and maybe 20.4) is that the tty-erase-char stuff has not been tried in the field yet. Anyway, Steve, How come it is broken for you? This is the code that is used (defsubst delete-forward-p () (and delete-key-deletes-forward (or (not (eq (device-type) 'x)) (x-keysym-on-keyboard-sans-modifiers-p 'backspace)))) So apparently XEmacs thinks that on your keyboard Backspace can be generated without a modifier and thus that it is safe to change the keyboard. This is not a question of defaults. This looks like a real bug. Jan P.S. Let's all remember that set-mark-command is also bound to a key which can be close to impossible to generate. Can you say 'telnet.exe'?

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Re: DANGER: Re: Backspace direction reversion 25 years, 8 months

Michael Sperber

>>>>> "Martin" == Martin Buchholz <martin(a)xemacs.org> writes: Martin> This patch REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY SUCKS. Martin> Please help save the world. Martin> Speak out against this patch which takes us back to the dark ages. I agree with Martin. -- Cheers =8-} Chipsy Friede, Völkerverständigung und überhaupt blabla

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Re: Build failure: 21.2 Clio on Solaris 2.6 25 years, 8 months

Oscar Figueiredo

>>>>> "Matthew" == Matthew O Persico <mpersico(a)erols.com> writes: Matthew> Ditto here. Using 21.2.12 on Solaris 2.6. I even diddled the Matthew> aclocal.m4 file to no avail. If that doesn't work, what will?? In order to get a build I hacked the configure script itself (look for -Bexport) and it worked but someone understanding what is going on really needs to fix that correctly. Oscar

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XEmacs 21.2.13 "Demeter" is released 25 years, 8 months

SL Baur

Get it from the usual places: ftp://ftp.xemacs.org/pub/xemacs/beta/ http://cvs.xemacs.org/ This beta contains initial support for ucs-4 and utf-8 character encoding. The required lisp code to use this is: ftp://ftp.xemacs.org/pub/xemacs/packages/ucs-conv-1.0-pkg.tar.gz ftp://ftp.xemacs.org/pub/xemacs/packages/ucs-conv-1.01-pkg.tar.gz Install under mule-packages. Version 1.0 is the original version, 1.01 is a repackaging under the usual XEmacs packaging standards. Note that it is not yet available under CVS and won't be until some building problems are addressed. In particular it can't be bytecompiled with XEmacs 21.0 and one file blows up internal limits in the bytecompiler and must be dealt with specially. The recent reported MS Windows build problem related to file-coding should be fixed. 21.2.14 is scheduled for Saturday, March 20 and will be the last 21.2 beta released while Martin and I are still in Japan. NOTE: I lied about the release schedule for 21.0.67. It will also be made on the 20th and will be the final beta before release. The first 21.1 bug fix release will be made some time in April after I get back to the US. I will be at the Linux World Expo on the 18th if I manage not to get lost in the Japanese public transportation system. If you're in Japan and wish to meet, please contact either me or IENAGA Kazuyuki <ienaga(a)jsys.co.jp>. to 21.2.13 "Demeter" -- Build fixes from Martin Buchholz -- experimental splash screen rewrite from Didier Verna -- Various patches from Jan Vroonhof and Andy Piper -- alist.el synched up with APEL 9.13 from MORIOKA Tomohiko -- MS Window build fixes from Jonathan Harris -- UCS-4/UTF-8 support from MORIOKA Tomohiko

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Re: Backspace direction reversion 25 years, 8 months

Martin Buchholz

>>>>> "SL" == SL Baur <steve(a)xemacs.org> writes: SL> My argument against is simple. The failure mode is catastrophic in SL> exactly the same way that we wanted to fix when we first got into SL> this. There are keyboards in the mule lab that XEmacs is completely SL> clueless to deal with[1]. With them, the big key labeled "Delete" stops SL> deleting backwards and in order to get a delete backwards requires a SL> shifted keystroke. Having the Big Key on the upper right side of the SL> keyboard not delete backwards or give help is wrong. We've fixed the SL> latter, and the best way to guarantee the former is to have backspace SL> and delete work the same way by default. The keyboards in use here in the Mule Lab are completely non-standard and are no argument for what the default behavior should be. If everyone had a Happy Hacking keyboard, it would be important. As it is, we can try to autodetect a Happy Hacking keyboard similarily to how we currently autodetect the absence of a Backspace key. You can always xmodmap the keyboards into what you consider sensible. Besides, on a Happy Hacking keyboard Fn+Delete is just as easy to type as Ctrl-d on a regular keyboard, so the Happy Hacking keyboard with the new default keybindings is just as `usable' as a regular PC keyboard with traditional keybindings. Which kind do more people have? Having two normally unshifted keys on the keyboard default to the same binding is a clear waste of keyboard real estate. SL> Netscape Communicator 4.5 is doing the same thing now, and it gets it SL> as wrong as GTK. GTK is more fucked up because typing C-h doesn't SL> work at all, at least Netscape lets one do that as a fallback. When almost all the other software in the world works in a particular way, we had better have a really good reason for being different. SL> Also, many of the defaults suck. Nobody runs `xemacs -vanilla' for SL> doing real work, but it should be at least semi-usable. Being able to SL> comfortably delete backwards is high on my list of requirements for SL> usability. Every one agrees that hitting the big key on the upper SL> right of the keyboard and getting help sucks. I think we should be SL> conservative about it and leave the setting as it is in 21.0. It is a SL> lot safer, IMO. This is about the only technical issue I've really felt strongly emotional about recently. I can't believe I need to argue about which set of keybindings should be the defaults. I really don't think I can continue to contribute to an editor with Steve's defaults without getting an ulcer, so if this doesn't change, I'll either be withdrawing from XEmacs development or forking my own version of Emacs. Martin

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DANGER: Re: Backspace direction reversion 25 years, 8 months

Martin Buchholz

This patch REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY SUCKS. Please help save the world. Speak out against this patch which takes us back to the dark ages. >>>>> "SL" == SL Baur <steve(a)xemacs.org> writes: SL> This change got snuck in in the middle of a multi-megabyte patch and SL> didn't get due process, nor did it get documented in the ChangeLog. SL> The new code really stinks and has made life miserable for me on 21.2. SL> However, no matter how much I think making Delete delete the wrong SL> direction stinks, if there's consensus for it, it will go back in. Made life miserable?? Excuse me?? Huh?? WTF?? SL> 1999-03-12 SL Baur <steve(a)xemacs.org> SL> * simple.el (delete-key-deletes-forward): Revert to previous SL> behavior. SL> Index: lisp/simple.el SL> =================================================================== SL> RCS file: /usr/CVSroot/XEmacs/xemacs/lisp/simple.el,v SL> retrieving revision 1.24.2.2 SL> diff -u -r1.24.2.2 simple.el SL> --- simple.el 1998/12/05 16:54:50 1.24.2.2 SL> +++ simple.el 1999/03/12 10:37:31 SL> ＠＠ -433,7 +433,7 ＠＠ SL> (and overwrite-mode (not (eolp)) SL> (save-excursion (insert-char ?\ arg)))) SL> -(defcustom delete-key-deletes-forward t SL> +(defcustom delete-key-deletes-forward nil SL> "*If non-nil, the DEL key will erase one character forwards. SL> If nil, the DEL key will erase one character backwards." SL> :type 'boolean

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XEmacs 21.0.66 "20 minutes to 日光" is released 25 years, 8 months

SL Baur

Get it from the usual places: ftp://ftp.xemacs.org/pub/xemacs/beta/ http://cvs.xemacs.org/ "Are we there yet?" "I told you the last time you asked, we're 20 minutes away." Bug fixes. 21.0.67 is scheduled for Friday, March 19. to 21.0.66 "20 minutes to Nikko" -- build fixes from Martin Buchholz -- various patches from Andy Piper and Jan Vroonhof -- alist.el synched with APEL-9.13 from MORIOKA Tomohiko

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XEmacs-Beta March 1999