January 1999 - XEmacs-Beta - XEmacs Mailing List Archives

Hrvoje Niksic

Kyle Jones <kyle_jones(a)wonderworks.com> writes: > > Nope. The user should be able to rebind global bindings. As someone > > said on alt.religion.emacs, global-set-key is global-set-key. > > Then the binding has to be dumped with XEmacs. That's what the autoload stuff used to do. The only difference between: ;;;###autoload (define-key ...) and: ;;;###autoload (define-key ...) is that the latter gets run at dump-time, while the former gets run both and dump-time and load-time. The packages have changed this a bit because autoloads are no longer dumped with XEmacs, but they are run before `.emacs' is, so they serve effectively the same purpose. The only reason why I posted on the list instead of producing a patch was that I didn't have the latest `vc-hooks.el' handy (I'm moving to another machine, so all my customizations are in a state of flux.)

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Re: vc-hooks.el 25 years, 10 months

Hrvoje Niksic

Jan Vroonhof <vroonhof(a)math.ethz.ch> writes: > 1. Use a predefined minor mode map. Then a user who does not want the binding > can put a new definition by changing this map. Something like that? > > 2. Otherwise use some 'vc-bind-obnoxious-keys' variable? Both of these would be bad ideas, I think. We should: a) make it easy for users to change global bindingd; b) avoid unnecessary user options to cover up for bad design decisions or ease of implementation. > 3. Your ;;;###autoload <stuff here> > isn't that bad either as it behaves just like vc-hooks.el was dumped > like it is in FSF Emacs. Would that work in the new vc-hooks.el? > a. Only for files where there is version control. > b. So what? The user should use 'C-c letter' for his bindings. Nope. The user should be able to rebind global bindings. As someone said on alt.religion.emacs, global-set-key is global-set-key.

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Re: vc-hooks.el 25 years, 10 months

Hrvoje Niksic

Jan Vroonhof <vroonhof(a)math.ethz.ch> writes: > > Nope. The user should be able to rebind global bindings. As someone > > said on alt.religion.emacs, global-set-key is global-set-key. > > That is plain silly. Then we have a disagreement. Yes, I agree that local behaviour overrides global, but it doesn't mean that we are free to destroy the meaning of global-set-key statements that have worked for a long time.

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Re: rssh.el interactions with ange-ftp/efs 25 years, 10 months

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

"John A. Martin" <jam(a)jamux.com> writes: > Let folks use Emacs atop Windoze -- Good (exposes the unwashed to the > wonders of Free Software). > > Let folks use Appgen atop Linux -- Bad (exposes the initiate to the > wonders of applications not bundled with the OS). Er -- no. I think that giving people the freedom that the GPL does is a moral good. How to achieve that goal is a matter of pragmatics and strategy. I think that Richard is right in his assessment that the inclusion of well-advertised functionality for using ssh in Emacs will remove some impetus towards making a free version of ssh. I didn't even know that ssh wasn't free, and I doubt that many people do, precisely because it has become the de facto tool for encryption in free software circles. > Four legs, good. Two legs, {bad,better}. -- Apologies to George > Owell, _Animal Farm_, Secker and Warburg, London, 1945. I don't quite understand what you wish to achieve by this escalation in rhetorics over a point of *strategy*. People will disagree on what's the best way to achieve things -- nobody here has a crystal ball to tell them how things will turn out. > If the freedom to be secure in one's communication is at least as > important as the freedom to use Free Software then the following > points seem to be pertinent. And if not, they are not. Some people are of the opinion that, say, support for audio devices is as important as freedom. I don't think so. > Moreover, which do you think will be more likely to use the GPLed lsh > when it becomes a viable option: those that have used ange-ftp/efs > with ssh1, or those who have adapted proprietary solutions like ssh2 > or the like apart from Emacs. The latter people. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi(a)ifi.uio.no * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

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Re: vc-hooks.el 25 years, 10 months

Jan Vroonhof

Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic(a)srce.hr> writes: > > 3. Your ;;;###autoload <stuff here> > > isn't that bad either as it behaves just like vc-hooks.el was dumped > > like it is in FSF Emacs. > > Would that work in the new vc-hooks.el? Yes. However I am beginning to like the substitute-key-definition solution more and more, because that expresses what we want. We really want to replace toggle-read-only (in interactive use) by some thing that calls a vc specific function sometimes. i.e. we use it instead of introducing some hooks in 'toggle-read-only-command'. > Nope. The user should be able to rebind global bindings. As someone > said on alt.religion.emacs, global-set-key is global-set-key. That is plain silly. In XEmacs local behaviour always overrides global behaviour. (global-set-key [(control c) (control c)] ...) is never going to work always. Jan

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cjk-enc.el for xemacs 25 years, 10 months

Mark Moll

The following message is a courtesy copy of an article that has been posted to comp.emacs.xemacs,comp.text.tex as well. Hi, I just installed CJK 4.2.0 (Chinese/Japanese/Korean language support for TeX) and would like to type in my LaTeX documents with xemacs (with built-in mule support, of course). CJK comes with elisp files that translate the internal encoding to EUC or Latin-1 for Emacs 20 and Mule, but not for xemacs. Has anybody written xemacs support for CJK? Is the internal encoding of characters a lot different from the ones used in Mule and Emacs 20? -- Mark Moll

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Re: vc-hooks.el 25 years, 10 months

Jan Vroonhof

Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic(a)srce.hr> writes: > > Awful. So what is the right way to fix it, then? > 1. Use a predefined minor mode map. Then a user who does not want the binding can put a new definition by changing this map. Something like that? 2. Otherwise use some 'vc-bind-obnoxious-keys' variable? 3. Your ;;;###autoload <stuff here> isn't that bad either as it behaves just like vc-hooks.el was dumped like it is in FSF Emacs. 4. Use (substitute-key-definition 'toggle-read-only 'vc-toggle-read-only global-map) as that is what is really meant anyway. > > Wouldn't the best solution be if VC simply bound this in a minor > > mode map? > > But then you're still overriding the user's explicit choice. Yes, but a. Only for files where there is version control. b. So what? The user should use 'C-c letter' for his bindings. Jan

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Re: vc-hooks.el 25 years, 10 months

Hrvoje Niksic

Jan Vroonhof <vroonhof(a)math.ethz.ch> writes: > Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic(a)srce.hr> writes: > > > I'm not sure if `vc-hooks.el' changed since 20.4. I > > Of coursge it changed! Taming vc-hooks.el was one of the reasons we > have packages now/ > > Currently it just contains: > > (define-key global-map "\C-x\C-q" 'vc-toggle-read-only) > > i.e. it is not autoloaded at all. Awful. So what is the right way to fix it, then? > Wouldn't the best solution be if VC simply bound this in a minor > mode map? But then you're still overriding the user's explicit choice.

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Re: vc-hooks.el 25 years, 10 months

Jan Vroonhof

Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic(a)srce.hr> writes: > I'm not sure if `vc-hooks.el' changed since 20.4. I Of coursge it changed! Taming vc-hooks.el was one of the reasons we have packages now/ Currently it just contains: (define-key global-map "\C-x\C-q" 'vc-toggle-read-only) i.e. it is not autoloaded at all. Wouldn't the best solution be if VC simply bound this in a minor mode map? Jan

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vc-hooks.el 25 years, 10 months

Hrvoje Niksic

I'm not sure if `vc-hooks.el' changed since 20.4. In its 20.4 version, there was code that said: ;;;###autoload (define-key global-map "\C-x\C-q" 'vc-toggle-read-only) This is evil, because the file is loaded at run-time, when it overrides the user's setting for `C-x C-q'. The right way to do it is like this: ;;;###autoload (define-key global-map "\C-x\C-q" 'vc-toggle-read-only) That way, the autoloads will contain the correct keydef, which will be overridable by the user's init file. Could someone with the convenient access to the latest package tree make the patch? Thanks.

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XEmacs-Beta January 1999