Currently buffer specifications take precedence over window specifications. Ben proposes to change the order of precedence of these two when instantiating the specifiers, and I agree with him here. The main point is that buffer domain is less specific than window domain. Window specifications are rarely used; in case they are set this means that somebody wants something to be that way in this window, so logically it makes a lot of sence that this specification overrides buffer specification. Crying examples are modeline shadow thickness specifier, and the new one introduced by Didier in his last patch. Both accept negative values to give sunken look to the corresponding objects, and both are set in the window locale. This has unwanted consequences in case when the specifier is set (has matching specification) in buffer domain: the approach simply does not work. There is no way to make it correct given the current course of things. Ben's point is that the change must be made to 21.0, and that the effect of this change would be minimal, becuase there are very few cases if any at all when a specifier is set in both window and buffer domains. Kirill