2:57 p.m.
================================================================
Dear Bug Team!
,----
| (insert (emacs-version))
| XEmacs 21.5 (beta18) "chestnut" (+CVS-20041223) [Lucid]
| (i686-pc-linux, Mule) of Fri Dec 24 2004 on boffi95
`----
i changed the registry field for the Xemacs fonts in my .Xdefaults,
from iso8859 to iso10646, then i ran xrdb and finally i started xemacs
xemacs came up with a tiny font, without bold/italic
the fonts in question are
,----
| boffi95/../~ Mon Jan 03 15:26:03: xrdb -q | grep -i xemacs'.*'font
| XEmacs*font: -*-bitstream vera sans-medium-r-*-*-*-130-100-100-p-*-iso10646-1
| XEmacs*fontSet: -*-bitstream vera sans-medium-r-*-*-*-130-100-100-p-*-iso10646-1
| XEmacs.bold-italic.attributeFont: -*-bitstream vera sans
mono-bold-o-*-*-*-120-100-100-*-*-iso10646-1
| XEmacs.bold.attributeFont: -*-bitstream vera sans
mono-bold-r-*-*-*-120-100-100-*-*-iso10646-1
| XEmacs.default.attributeFont: -*-bitstream vera sans
mono-medium-r-*-*-*-120-100-100-*-*-iso10646-1
| XEmacs.italic.attributeFont: -*-bitstream vera sans
mono-medium-o-*-*-*-120-100-100-*-*-iso10646-1
| XEmacs.modeline*attributeFont: -*-bitstream vera
sans-medium-r-*-*-*-130-100-100-p-*-iso10646-1
| boffi95/../~ Mon Jan 03 15:26:16: xfontsel
`----
when i, in the new xemacs running with the wrong font, changed the
font via the options menu to bitstream vera sans mono, i noted that the
selected font was already vera mono, and that if i reselect vera mono
the font was changed, but no bold/italic
later, i made a test with
,----
| (insert (emacs-version))
| XEmacs 21.4 (patch 15) "Security Through Obscurity" [Lucid]
| (i686-pc-linux) of Tue Nov 23 2004 on boffi95nil
`----
in this case i got a largish face, that looked like courier, with
bold/italic in the appropriate place
when i used the options menu to change the font, i saw that the
currently used font was 'courier new' and when i changed the font to
vera mono the font was changed ok and everything worked as expected
may i ask a correlated Q? is it possible to ask XEmacs for the X font
description of the face at point?
ciao
gb
================================================================
System Info to help track down your bug:
---------------------------------------
uname -a: Linux boffi95 2.6.7-1-386 #1 Thu Jul 8 05:08:04 EDT 2004 i686 GNU/Linux
./configure '--extra-verbose' '--rel-alloc' '--with-widgets'
'--with-athena=3d' '--pdump' '--with-wmcommand=yes'
'--with-sound=no' '--use-number-lib=gmp' '--with-mule'
'--with-xfs' '--with-modules'
XEmacs 21.5-b18 "chestnut" (+CVS-20041223) configured for `i686-pc-linux'.
Compilation Environment and Installation Defaults:
Source code location: /home/boffi/src/xemacs-21.5
Installation prefix: /usr/local
Operating system description file: `s/linux.h'
Machine description file: `m/intel386.h'
Compiler version: gcc (GCC) 3.3.5 (Debian 1:3.3.5-5)
- GCC specs file: /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i486-linux/3.3.5/specs
- Compiler command: gcc -Wall -Wno-switch -Wmissing-prototypes
-Wsign-compare -Wno-char-subscripts -Wundef -Wstrict-prototypes -Wpacked
-Wunused-parameter -g -O3
libc version: GNU libc 2.3.2.ds1-19 (Debian)
Relocating allocator for buffers: yes
GNU version of malloc: yes
- Using Doug Lea's new malloc from the GNU C Library.
Window System:
Compiling in support for the X window system:
- X Windows headers location: /usr/X11R6/include
- X Windows libraries location: /usr/X11R6/lib
- Handling WM_COMMAND properly.
Compiling in support for the Athena widget set:
- Athena headers location: X11/Xaw3d
- Athena library to link: Xaw3d
Using Lucid menubars.
Using Lucid scrollbars.
Using Athena dialog boxes.
Using Athena native widgets.
TTY:
Compiling in support for ncurses.
Images:
Compiling in support for GIF images (builtin).
Compiling in support for XPM images.
Compiling in support for PNG images.
Compiling in support for JPEG images.
Compiling in support for TIFF images.
Compiling in support for X-Face message headers.
Sound:
Databases:
Internationalization:
Compiling in support for Mule (multi-lingual Emacs).
Compiling in support for XIM (X11R5+ I18N input method).
- Using raw Xlib to provide XIM support.
- Using XFontSet to provide bilingual menubar.
Mail:
Compiling in support for "file" mail spool file locking method.
Other Features:
Inhibiting IPv6 canonicalization at startup.
Compiling in support for dynamic shared object modules.
Compiling in support for more number types using the GNU MP library.
Using the new portable dumper.
Compiling in support for extra debugging code.
Compiling in support for runtime error checking.
WARNING: ---------------------------------------------------------
WARNING: XEmacs will run noticeably more slowly as a result.
WARNING: Error checking is on by default for XEmacs beta releases.
WARNING: ---------------------------------------------------------
Load-Path Lisp Shadows:
----------------------
(/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/auctex/tex-site
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/tex-site
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/auctex/tex-info
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/auctex/tex-info
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/auctex/context-nl
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/auctex/context-nl
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/auctex/context-en
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/auctex/context-en
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/auctex/latex
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/auctex/latex
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/auctex/tex-mik
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/auctex/tex-mik
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/auctex/tex-jp
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/auctex/tex-jp
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/auctex/texmathp
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/auctex/texmathp
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/auctex/context
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/auctex/context
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/auctex/tex-buf
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/auctex/tex-buf
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/auctex/bib-cite
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/auctex/bib-cite
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/auctex/tex
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/auctex/tex
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/auctex/multi-prompt
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/auctex/multi-prompt
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/auctex/tex-fold
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/auctex/tex-fold
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/auctex/tex-site
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/auctex/tex-site
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/auctex/font-latex
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/auctex/font-latex
/home/boffi/lib/emacs/info-look
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/edit-utils/info-look
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/mule-packages/lisp/mule-base/ethio-util
/usr/local/lib/xemacs-21.5-b18/lisp/mule/ethio-util
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/mule-packages/lisp/mule-base/china-util
/usr/local/lib/xemacs-21.5-b18/lisp/mule/china-util
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/mule-packages/lisp/mule-base/cyril-util
/usr/local/lib/xemacs-21.5-b18/lisp/mule/cyril-util
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/mule-packages/lisp/mule-base/korea-util
/usr/local/lib/xemacs-21.5-b18/lisp/mule/korea-util
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/mule-packages/lisp/mule-base/viet-util
/usr/local/lib/xemacs-21.5-b18/lisp/mule/viet-util
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/mule-packages/lisp/mule-base/japan-util
/usr/local/lib/xemacs-21.5-b18/lisp/mule/japan-util
/usr/local/lib/xemacs/mule-packages/lisp/mule-ucs/unicode
/usr/local/lib/xemacs-21.5-b18/lisp/unicode)
Installed XEmacs Packages:
-------------------------
(xwem ver: 1.18 upstream: 0.2)
(xlib ver: 1.12 upstream: 0.2)
(xemacs-base ver: 1.9 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(x-symbol ver: 1.1 upstream: 4.5.1)
(vm ver: 7.18 upstream: 7.17)
(tramp ver: 1.2 upstream: 2.0.45)
(time ver: 1.14 upstream: 1.17)
(textools ver: 1.15 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(text-modes ver: 1.8 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(texinfo ver: 1.25 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(sh-script ver: 1.18 upstream: 2.0e)
(scheme ver: 1.14 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(sasl ver: 1.15 upstream: 1.14.4)
(ruby-modes ver: 1.02 upstream: 1.6.8)
(reftex ver: 1.34 upstream: 4.21)
(python-modes ver: 1.06 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(psgml-dtds ver: 1.03 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(psgml ver: 1.43 upstream: 1.3.1)
(ps-print ver: 1.11 upstream: 6.5.6)
(prog-modes ver: 2.01 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(pgg ver: 1.05 upstream: 0.1)
(perl-modes ver: 1.06 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(pcomplete ver: 1.03 upstream: 1.1.6)
(os-utils ver: 1.35 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(net-utils ver: 1.44 upstream: N/A)
(mmm-mode ver: 1.02 upstream: 0.4.7)
(misc-games ver: 1.18 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(mailcrypt ver: 2.14 upstream: 3.5.8)
(mail-lib ver: 1.69 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(ispell ver: 1.29 upstream: 3.6)
(hm--html-menus ver: 1.23 upstream: 5.9)
(gnus ver: 1.82 upstream: 5.10.6)
(general-docs ver: 1.01 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(fsf-compat ver: 1.15 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(fortran-modes ver: 1.04 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(footnote ver: 1.16 upstream: 0.18x)
(efs ver: 1.33 upstream: 1.23)
(edit-utils ver: 2.18 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(ediff ver: 1.5 upstream: 2.75)
(ecrypto ver: 0.18 upstream: 2.0)
(ecb ver: 1.19 upstream: 2.27)
(dired ver: 1.16 upstream: 7.12)
(dictionary ver: 1.15 upstream: 1.8)
(debug ver: 1.17 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(cookie ver: 1.15 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(cc-mode ver: 1.43 upstream: 5.30.9)
(calendar ver: 1.23 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(calc ver: 1.26 upstream: 2.02fX3)
(c-support ver: 1.2 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(bbdb ver: 1.25 upstream: 2.34)
(auctex ver: 1.42 upstream: 11.53)
(mule-ucs ver: 1.05 upstream: 0.84)
(mule-base ver: 1.46 upstream: No-Upstream-Ver)
(latin-unity ver: 1.1 upstream: 1.10)
Installed Modules:
-----------------
Features:
--------
(xemacsbug shadow alist x-font-menu font-menu vm-sort boxquote rect
byte-optimize bytecomp byte-compile gnus-score score-mode gnus-ml
gnus-msg gnus-art mm-uu mml2015 pgg password pgg-parse pgg-def mm-view
disp-table gnus-topic nndoc gnus-sum gnus-cache gnus-group gnus-undo
nndraft nnmh nnmail mail-source format-spec nntp nnoo uboat gnus-start
gnus-spec gnus-int gnus-range message mml mml-sec mml-smime smime dig
mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mailcap lpr mail-parse rfc2045 rfc2231
rfc2047 qp ietf-drums mail-abbrevs sendmail rfc822 mailheader canlock
sha1 executable hex-util gnus-win gnus gnus-ems gnus-xmas wid-edit
facemenu vm-delete vm-undo vm-crypto vm-minibuf vm-imap vm-page
vm-mime vm-toolbar vm-summary tapestry vm-motion vm-message vm-menu
vm-folder efs-cu vm-misc vm-mouse vm-window vm-autoload vm-vars
vm-version vm vm-startup gnuserv paren blink-paren func-menu bbdb
timezone font-lock cus-face jka-compr tex-site smiley annotations
messagexmas nnheader nnheaderxm gnus-util netrc time-date parse-time
mm-util mail-prsvr mail-utils x-compose filladapt image-mode view-less
view mwheel xwem-autoloads xlib-autoloads xemacs-base-autoloads
x-symbol-autoloads vm-autoloads tramp-autoloads time-autoloads
textools-autoloads text-modes-autoloads texinfo-autoloads
sh-script-autoloads scheme-autoloads sasl-autoloads
ruby-modes-autoloads reftex-autoloads python-modes-autoloads
psgml-dtds-autoloads psgml-autoloads ps-print-autoloads
prog-modes-autoloads pgg-autoloads perl-modes-autoloads
pcomplete-autoloads os-utils-autoloads net-utils-autoloads
mmm-mode-autoloads misc-games-autoloads mailcrypt-autoloads
mail-lib-autoloads ispell-autoloads hm--html-menus-autoloads
gnus-autoloads general-docs-autoloads fsf-compat-autoloads
fortran-modes-autoloads footnote-autoloads efs-autoloads
edit-utils-autoloads ediff-autoloads ecrypto-autoloads ecb-autoloads
dired-autoloads dictionary-autoloads debug-autoloads cookie-autoloads
cc-mode-autoloads calendar-autoloads calc-autoloads
c-support-autoloads bbdb-autoloads auctex-autoloads mule-ucs-autoloads
mule-base-autoloads latin-unity-autoloads modules-autoloads
mule-autoloads lisp-autoloads loadhist rsz-minibuf auto-show
fontl-hooks x-iso8859-1 tibetan lao devanagari indian slovenian czech
romanian ccl code-cmds gutter-items menubar-items x-menubar
mode-motion mouse behavior itimer auto-save lisp-mode easymenu
iso8859-1 page buff-menu lib-complete cus-file derived newcomment env
text-props frame obsolete cus-start custom widget cl-extra cl cl-19
packages backquote unicode lucid-scrollbars cut-buffer lucid-menubars
athena-dialogs x c-balloon-help tty-frames tty toolbar scrollbar
unix-processes multicast network-streams subprocesses bigfloat ratio
bignum number-types modules menu-accelerator-support menubar md5
xemacs xim mule gutter tiff png gif jpeg xface xpm xbm lisp-float-type
file-coding linux dialog devices window-system base64)
Recent keystrokes:
-----------------
BS BS BS BS BS SPC a l l SPC s o r t s SPC o f SPC
m i m e SPC p a r t s up right right right right left
left left left left left left C-k C-k C-k RET up left
left left left left left left left left left left left
right SPC s a n s SPC m o n o misc-user button1 button1up
button1 button1up button1 button1up button1 button1up
button1 button1up C-x k RET y e s RET M-x r e p o r
t SPC x e SPC SPC RET
Recent messages (most recent first):
-----------------------------------
Parsing /home/boffi/.mailrc... done
Parsing /home/boffi/.mailrc...
Loading xemacsbug...done
Loading xemacsbug...
Changing font of `gui-button-face'...
Changing font of `gnus-emphasis-italic'...
Changing font of `font-lock-comment-face'...
Changing font of `gnus-group-news-1-empty-face'...
Changing font of `message-header-newsgroups-face'...
Changing font of `gnus-group-mail-low-empty-face'...
Changing font of `font-lock-function-name-face'...
Changing font of `xrdb-option-value-face'...
Changing font of `paren-blink-off'...
Changing font of `font-lock-doc-string-face'...
Changing font of `font-lock-warning-face'...
Changing font of `message-header-to-face'...
Changing font of `gnus-group-mail-3-face'...
Changing font of `toolbar'...
Changing font of `font-lock-reference-face'...
Changing font of `border-glyph'...
3:11 p.m.
On Mon, 3 Jan 2005, giacomo.boffi(a)polimi.it wrote:
may i ask a correlated Q? is it possible to ask XEmacs for the X
font
description of the face at point?
This code describes the face used at point, which includes font information.
(global-set-key [(control button3)] 'describe-face-at-mouse-point)
;;****************************************************************
;; DESCRIBE-FACE-AT-MOUSE-POINT
;; DESCRIBE-FACE-AT-POINT
;;****************************************************************
(defun describe-face-at-mouse-point (event)
(interactive "*e")
(let ((point (save-excursion
(save-window-excursion
(mouse-set-point event)
(point)))))
(describe-face-at-point point)))
(defun describe-face-at-point (&optional point)
"Return face used at point."
(interactive)
(let ((face (get-char-property (or point (point)) 'face)))
(if (listp face)
(progn
(message (format "Full value: %s" (prin1-to-string face)))
(setq face (car face))))
(hyper-describe-face face)))
If you want the exact font spec, you can get that with font-truename, eg:
(font-truename (face-font 'default))
-jeff
9:43 p.m.
giacomo boffi writes:
================================================================
Dear Bug Team!
,----
| (insert (emacs-version))
| XEmacs 21.5 (beta18) "chestnut" (+CVS-20041223) [Lucid]
| (i686-pc-linux, Mule) of Fri Dec 24 2004 on boffi95
`----
i changed the registry field for the Xemacs fonts in my .Xdefaults,
from iso8859 to iso10646, then i ran xrdb and finally i started xemacs
xemacs came up with a tiny font, without bold/italic
the fonts in question are
,----
| boffi95/../~ Mon Jan 03 15:26:03: xrdb -q | grep -i xemacs'.*'font
| XEmacs*font: -*-bitstream vera sans-medium-r-*-*-*-130-100-100-p-*-iso10646-1
| XEmacs*fontSet: -*-bitstream vera sans-medium-r-*-*-*-130-100-100-p-*-iso10646-1
| XEmacs.bold-italic.attributeFont: -*-bitstream vera sans
mono-bold-o-*-*-*-120-100-100-*-*-iso10646-1
| XEmacs.bold.attributeFont: -*-bitstream vera sans
mono-bold-r-*-*-*-120-100-100-*-*-iso10646-1
| XEmacs.default.attributeFont: -*-bitstream vera sans
mono-medium-r-*-*-*-120-100-100-*-*-iso10646-1
| XEmacs.italic.attributeFont: -*-bitstream vera sans
mono-medium-o-*-*-*-120-100-100-*-*-iso10646-1
| XEmacs.modeline*attributeFont: -*-bitstream vera
sans-medium-r-*-*-*-130-100-100-p-*-iso10646-1
| boffi95/../~ Mon Jan 03 15:26:16: xfontsel
`----
when i, in the new xemacs running with the wrong font, changed the
font via the options menu to bitstream vera sans mono, i noted that the
selected font was already vera mono, and that if i reselect vera mono
the font was changed, but no bold/italic
later, i made a test with
,----
| (insert (emacs-version))
| XEmacs 21.4 (patch 15) "Security Through Obscurity" [Lucid]
| (i686-pc-linux) of Tue Nov 23 2004 on boffi95nil
`----
in this case i got a largish face, that looked like courier, with
bold/italic in the appropriate place
when i used the options menu to change the font, i saw that the
currently used font was 'courier new' and when i changed the font to
vera mono the font was changed ok and everything worked as expected
i made a double-check, finding that, somehow, when running 21.5, a
face customization for default was saved: "(default ... :family
"courier new" ... )"
i removed the rogue customization and ran again both 21.4 and 21.5
21.5 starts with the ugly tiny font anyhow, no bold no italic,
21.4 starts with vera sans mono, everything seems ok...
ill' try to enable mule on 21.4 too, and report my findings asap
9:14 a.m.
giacomo boffi writes:
giacomo boffi writes:
> ================================================================
> Dear Bug Team!
>
> i changed the registry field for the Xemacs fonts in my .Xdefaults,
> from iso8859 to iso10646, then i ran xrdb and finally i started xemacs
>
> xemacs came up with a tiny font, without bold/italic
>
> the fonts in question are
>
> ,----
> | boffi95/../~ Mon Jan 03 15:26:03: xrdb -q | grep -i xemacs'.*'font
> | XEmacs*font: -*-bitstream vera sans-medium-r-*-*-*-130-100-100-p-*-iso10646-1
> | XEmacs*fontSet: -*-bitstream vera sans-medium-r-*-*-*-130-100-100-p-*-iso10646-1
> | XEmacs.bold-italic.attributeFont: -*-bitstream vera sans
mono-bold-o-*-*-*-120-100-100-*-*-iso10646-1
> | XEmacs.bold.attributeFont: -*-bitstream vera sans
mono-bold-r-*-*-*-120-100-100-*-*-iso10646-1
> | XEmacs.default.attributeFont: -*-bitstream vera sans
mono-medium-r-*-*-*-120-100-100-*-*-iso10646-1
> | XEmacs.italic.attributeFont: -*-bitstream vera sans
mono-medium-o-*-*-*-120-100-100-*-*-iso10646-1
> | XEmacs.modeline*attributeFont: -*-bitstream vera
sans-medium-r-*-*-*-130-100-100-p-*-iso10646-1
> | boffi95/../~ Mon Jan 03 15:26:16: xfontsel
> `----
>
> later, i made a test with [21-4 and] in this case i got a
> largish face, that looked like courier, with bold/italic in the
> appropriate place
>
> when i used the options menu to change the font, i saw that the
> currently used font was 'courier new' and when i changed the font to
> vera mono the font was changed ok and everything worked as expected
i made a double-check, finding that, somehow, when running 21.5, a
face customization for default was saved: "(default ... :family
"courier new" ... )"
i removed the rogue customization and ran again both 21.4 and 21.5
21.5 starts with the ugly tiny font anyhow, no bold no italic,
21.4 starts with vera sans mono, everything seems ok...
ill' try to enable mule on 21.4 too, and report my findings asap
now i have a mule-enabled 21.4 XEmacs, and i have found that the
problems i have experienced with mule-ized 21.5 are also in 21.4
also, i have found on disk an old (b17) s1.5 without mule, and
everything is ok
the funny thing is that, whenever i try
(font-truename (face-font 'default))
as Jeff Mincy suggested, i get
-bitstream-bitstream vera sans mono-medium-r-normal-roman-17-120-100-100-m-100-iso8859-1
even if the font used by XEmacs is clearly a variant of courier
puzzled... ciao
10:38 a.m.
>>>> "giacomo" == giacomo boffi
<giacomo.boffi(a)polimi.it> writes:
giacomo> the funny thing is that, whenever i try
giacomo> (font-truename (face-font 'default))
giacomo> as Jeff Mincy suggested, i get
giacomo> -bitstream-bitstream vera sans
giacomo> mono-medium-r-normal-roman-17-120-100-100-m-100-iso8859-1
giacomo> even if the font used by XEmacs is clearly a variant of
giacomo> courier
The font situation is a real mess. Basically, instead of figuring out
what was going on in XEmacs 19.x and making Customize reflect that,
people have spent a lot of energy forcing XEmacs to conform to
Customize's expectations. "All fonts yours now ours unusable are!"
--
Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
ask what your business can "do for" free software.
7263
days inactive
7264
days old
4 comments
3 participants
participants (3)
-
Giacomo Boffi -
Jeff Mincy -
Stephen J. Turnbull