JV> I don't think you have posted a trace with just always_gc = 1 and no JV> other changes. oh, I didn't realize I should be doing that as well - I thought I was seeing a different crash from the one in this thread I was simply pointing out that I wasn't getting the lisp backtrace can you take a look back at the "stinkin' crash" thread, starting here: http://www.xemacs.org/list-archives/xemacs-beta/200003/msg00166.html and let me know if you still want me to do this? sorry for the confusion... -- John A. Turner, Senior Research Associate Blue Sky Studios, One South Rd, Harrison, NY 10528 http://www.blueskystudios.com/ (914) 825-8319