Having a toolbar that changes width on left confuses geometry (demo below). The defects in echo area (try typing something, the echo area starts under the toolbar) and top gutter are visible right next to toolbar (in the margin margin?). The gutter defect goes away if you iconify, but not on C-l. The echo area bogon persists in both cases. (progn (set-default-toolbar-position 'left) (switch-to-buffer "*scratch*") (find-file-other-window (expand-file-name "recycle.xpm" data-directory))) -- Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp University of Tsukuba Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN My nostalgia for Icon makes me forget about any of the bad things. I don't have much nostalgia for Perl, so its faults I remember. Scott Gilbert c.l.py