11:01 p.m.
Hi,
In the same region as ChangeLogs and READMEs we have the
NEWS-files. The NEWS files, NEWS, ONEWS and OONEWS, list the new
features at a higher lever than the ChangeLogs. Definitely more edited
files and prepared to be readable.
I can find no real counterpart for the NEWS-files in Emacs.
If we would go for finding all contributions we have the contributors
from the "hg log" for the recent time but most contributions are from
the cvs days of course. (So the question whether the cvs archive can
be consulted pops up again.)
On the other hand the old NEWS-files might be more of historical
interest and might not need to be distributed as part of XEmacs?
Comments, ideas?
Yours
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3:37 p.m.
Mats Lidell writes:
I can find no real counterpart for the NEWS-files in Emacs.
Emacs definitely has a NEWS file somewhere; it is frequently mentioned
as in "you need to provide a NEWS entry for this patch." It might be
the "AntiNEWS" file, where all the features you lose by going back to
the previous version are described, but I think they have a forward
NEWS file, too.
They may discard the whole NEWS file with every release, though.
If we would go for finding all contributions we have the
contributors
from the "hg log" for the recent time but most contributions are from
the cvs days of course.
From 1997 to 2000 or so most NEWS was written and edited by Hrvoje
Niksic. Before that, I think Steve Baur. Before that, probably Chuck
Thompson, and then before that, the Lucid people. You can ignore
anything before the demise of Lucid, though; all Lucid stuff was
assigned to the FSF, sez Jamie.
hg log should have reasonably good logs back to The Great Trunk Move
around 21.5.0. Before that, practically everything gets attributed to
Mike, unfortunately, until you get back to betas for 21.0.
(So the question whether the cvs archive can be consulted pops up
again.)
Yes. I have a copy (or a dozen) around on various machines. If you
have need send me an ssh key, there's one that probably could be made
remotely accessible via ssh server with little trouble. Or I can put
up a tarball for HTTP.
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4:05 p.m.
"Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen(a)xemacs.org> writes:
Mats Lidell writes:
> I can find no real counterpart for the NEWS-files in Emacs.
Emacs definitely has a NEWS file somewhere; it is frequently mentioned
as in "you need to provide a NEWS entry for this patch."
C-h C-n will, in an installed version of Emacs, lead you to it.
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10:35 p.m.
"Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen(a)xemacs.org> writes:
> Emacs definitely has a NEWS file somewhere; it is frequently
> mentioned as in "you need to provide a NEWS entry for this patch."
>>>> David Kastrup <dak(a)gnu.org> writes:
David> C-h C-n will, in an installed version of Emacs, lead you to it.
Yes, Thanks for clarifying. That directly leads to the etc-folder in
the repository. So I must have been blind while looking for them.¨
The style is the same: copyright to FSF and at the end the license.
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11:15 p.m.
>>>> Stephen J Turnbull <stephen(a)xemacs.org> writes:
> From 1997 to 2000 or so most NEWS was written and edited by
Hrvoje
Stephen> Niksic. Before that, I think Steve Baur. Before that, probably
Chuck
Stephen> Thompson, and then before that, the Lucid people. You can ignore
Stephen> anything before the demise of Lucid, though; all Lucid stuff was
Stephen> assigned to the FSF, sez Jamie.
OK. So an outline for the copyright would be
Copyright 19ZZ,...,19YY FSF
Copyright 19YY,...,19XX Chuck Thompson
Copyright 19XX,...,1997 Steve Baur
Copyright 1997,...,2000 Hrvoje Niksic
Stephen> hg log should have reasonably good logs back to The Great Trunk Move
Stephen> around 21.5.0. Before that, practically everything gets attributed to
Stephen> Mike, unfortunately, until you get back to betas for 21.0.
Copyright 2000,2001 Michael Sperber
hg log indicates 8 commits since 2001 if it can be trusted. We then
get:
Copyright 2001 Ben Wing
Copyright 2001 Didier Verna
Copyright 2004 Stephen Turnbull
Copyright 2005, 2006 Aidan Kehoe
Stephen> Yes. I have a copy (or a dozen) around on various machines.
Stephen> If you have need send me an ssh key,
What do you think. Is the list good enough? (Give than the years are
sorted out.) or do we really need to analyse the commits in cvs?
>>>> Michael Sperber <sperber(a)deinprogramm.de>
writes:
Michael> As to NEWS, I'd suggest treating it like ChangeLog. (Well,
there's
Michael> nothing from GNU Emacs in there, is there?)
Michael: Are you suggesting a more relaxed notation that just say that
the copyright is held by the authors but without actually mentioning
them by name.
Finally about the license: With these contributors listed above would
there be any issue with making the NEWS files GPLv3 or later?
Yours
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7:21 a.m.
Mats Lidell <matsl(a)xemacs.org> writes:
Michael: Are you suggesting a more relaxed notation that just say
that
the copyright is held by the authors but without actually mentioning
them by name.
That, or preferably just mentioning the names that you and Stephen have
dug up.
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8:21 a.m.
Mats Lidell writes:
>>>>> Stephen J Turnbull <stephen(a)xemacs.org>
writes:
>> From 1997 to 2000 or so most NEWS was written and edited by Hrvoje
Stephen> Niksic. Before that, I think Steve Baur. Before that, probably Chuck
Stephen> Thompson, and then before that, the Lucid people. You can ignore
Stephen> anything before the demise of Lucid, though; all Lucid stuff was
Stephen> assigned to the FSF, sez Jamie.
OK. So an outline for the copyright would be
Copyright 19ZZ,...,19YY FSF
1992-1994 (FSF lawyers now say dash is OK to indicate range of years).
Copyright 19YY,...,19XX Chuck Thompson
1995-1996
Copyright 19XX,...,1997 Steve Baur
1996-1997
Copyright 1997,...,2000 Hrvoje Niksic
1997-2000
Note that these years probably only apply to XEmacs ONEWS for each
period; NEWS should get completely rewritten with every major release,
right?
Stephen> hg log should have reasonably good logs back to The Great
Trunk Move
Stephen> around 21.5.0. Before that, practically everything gets attributed to
Stephen> Mike, unfortunately, until you get back to betas for 21.0.
Copyright 2000,2001 Michael Sperber
No. This is an artifact. The point is that because Mike did the
Great Trunk Move none of the committers can be trusted around that
time.
You'd have to ask Mike if he ever did any work on NEWS.
hg log indicates 8 commits since 2001 if it can be trusted. We then
get:
Copyright 2001 Ben Wing
Copyright 2001 Didier Verna
Copyright 2004 Stephen Turnbull
Copyright 2005, 2006 Aidan Kehoe
That seems reasonable, since we haven't had any major public release
since then.
What do you think. Is the list good enough? (Give than the years are
sorted out.) or do we really need to analyse the commits in cvs?
Check with Mike. (Cc'd.)
Finally about the license: With these contributors listed above
would
there be any issue with making the NEWS files GPLv3 or later?
No. Steve B. doesn't like GPLv3, but he won't get in the way. Chuck
Thompson is hard to find, but I don't think he had a position on GPL
at all. The FSF won't object, Hrvoje won't object, and the more
recent contributors have all signed off on the move.
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8:59 a.m.
"Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen(a)xemacs.org> writes:
You'd have to ask Mike if he ever did any work on NEWS.
Yes.
> What do you think. Is the list good enough? (Give than the
years are
> sorted out.) or do we really need to analyse the commits in cvs?
Check with Mike. (Cc'd.)
Yes, as far as I know.
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11:44 p.m.
Hi,
> > What do you think. Is the list good enough? (Give than the
years are
> > sorted out.) or do we really need to analyse the commits in cvs?
>
> Check with Mike. (Cc'd.)
>>>> Michael Sperber <sperber(a)deinprogramm.de>
writes:
Michael> Yes, as far as I know.
OOPS! Sorry for the bad question. Is it "yes the list is good enough" or
"yes we need to analyze the commits in cvs"?
Yours
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7:21 a.m.
Mats Lidell <matsl(a)xemacs.org> writes:
Hi,
>> > What do you think. Is the list good enough? (Give than the years are
>> > sorted out.) or do we really need to analyse the commits in cvs?
>>
>> Check with Mike. (Cc'd.)
>>>>> Michael Sperber <sperber(a)deinprogramm.de> writes:
Michael> Yes, as far as I know.
OOPS! Sorry for the bad question. Is it "yes the list is good enough" or
"yes we need to analyze the commits in cvs"?
Yes, the list and Stephen's analysis are good enough, as far as I know.
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