yup. but i can go farther than 2/3's. see the worlds smallest gtk-xemacs, attached. when i dragged the frame larger after this little experiment, the menubar was attached at bottom rather than top, i had to move it back up. other gtk problems: 1.) in VM, the glyphs for attachments are not showing up. there should be one for the attachment below, but there ain't. 2.) Pasting/X-selection works a lil differently. in beta2/non-gtk, i could sweep the mouse over a region and the region would automatically be in the X clipboard. it still is now: i can paste into an xterm for example, but NOT into an xemacs frame. i have to do a M-w first. 3.) (more visual annoyance than bug) when i move the mouse around in a buffer, or when i type, the scrollbars flicker. will add this stuff to our gtk bug page later today. les schaffer p.s. some of the faces got changed between beta2/non and beta3/gtk.