12:38 p.m.
Andy Piper <andyp(a)parallax.co.uk> writes:
>Kyle disagrees because she thinks it is useless to have to
>reimplement the various stuff the frame code does, such as
>placement of images and I18N chars in balloon help, which is
>currently possible under X. I see her point, but I think we should
>remove the images support from balloon help rather than keep the
>frame-based implementation (the system tooltips look so much
>nicer).
They are also inordinately easy to implement under mswindows.
Not if you want to have the ability to attach glyphs and extents to
tooltip strings.
> But Kyle is the maintainer, and
>I didn't press on that.
I'll stop hacking. However, I don't think the frame-based solution
is ok for mswindows, given that it has its own tooltip support.
So do I. The "clean" solution that I envisioned would use tooltips
under windows, and perhaps fall back to Lisp under X.
--
Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic(a)srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia
--------------------------------+--------------------------------
When a girl can read the handwriting on the wall, she may be in the
wrong rest room.
12:44 p.m.
New subject: how does ballon-help work under X?
OK with me, provisionally. As long as applications consider balloon
help to just be a box with some text in it, then the Windows tooltip
boxes should be fine, except that the balloon-help customization
variables are not going to work. But I remember Jens Lautenbacher
was doing more than that with the time.el balloons.
12:48 p.m.
New subject: how does ballon-help work under X?
Hrvoje Niksic writes:
Not if you want to have the ability to attach glyphs and extents to
tooltip strings.
It just occurred to me that nastiest problems will likely coe
from internationalization. How do you tell Windows balloons
what character set to use and how do we get from MULE internal
encoding to whatever Windows wants? The ISO-8859 stuff is easy,
but I'm thinking about the Asian stuff.
8:23 p.m.
New subject: how does ballon-help work under X?
At 04:48 24/10/98 -0700, Kyle Jones wrote:
Hrvoje Niksic writes:
> Not if you want to have the ability to attach glyphs and extents to
> tooltip strings.
It just occurred to me that nastiest problems will likely coe
from internationalization. How do you tell Windows balloons
what character set to use and how do we get from MULE internal
encoding to whatever Windows wants? The ISO-8859 stuff is easy,
but I'm thinking about the Asian stuff.
You probably need Asian Flu^H^H^H WIndows.
andy
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
" .sigs are like your face - rarely seen by you and uglier than you think"
Dr Andy Piper, Technical Architect, Parallax Solutions Ltd
mail: andyp(a)parallax.co.uk web: www.parallax.co.uk/~andyp
12:50 p.m.
New subject: how does ballon-help work under X?
[ ＠#$＠*#&(＠#*(&＠#(*＠(#$(＠#$＠#*&(＠*#&$* MAJORDOMO!!! ＠$(*＠&#(*&＠...
]
> > But Kyle is the maintainer, and
> >I didn't press on that.
>
> I'll stop hacking. However, I don't think the frame-based solution
> is ok for mswindows, given that it has its own tooltip support.
So do I. The "clean" solution that I envisioned would use tooltips
under windows, and perhaps fall back to Lisp under X.
OK with me, provisionally. As long as applications consider balloon
help to just be a box with some text in it, then the Windows tooltip
boxes should be fine, except that the balloon-help customization
variables are not going to work. But I remember Jens Lautenbacher
was doing more than that with the time.el balloons.
8:23 p.m.
New subject: how does ballon-help work under X?
At 13:38 24/10/98 +0200, Hrvoje Niksic wrote:
Not if you want to have the ability to attach glyphs and extents to
tooltip strings.
Why would I want to do this :)
andy
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
" .sigs are like your face - rarely seen by you and uglier than you think"
Dr Andy Piper, Technical Architect, Parallax Solutions Ltd
mail: andyp(a)parallax.co.uk web: www.parallax.co.uk/~andyp
10:35 p.m.
New subject: how does ballon-help work under X?
Andy Piper writes:
At 13:38 24/10/98 +0200, Hrvoje Niksic wrote:
>Not if you want to have the ability to attach glyphs and extents to
>tooltip strings.
Why would I want to do this :)
You might want to emphasize a word in the help string, which
would require an extent. Or you might want to put a glyph in
the balloon to give the user an exact picture of the button
they should press to initiate an action.
I don't understnad the resistance to the existing balloon help.
Presumably if the Windows port was done properly, balloon-help.el
should just work. It doesn't rely on X specific things as far as
I know.
2:10 a.m.
New subject: how does ballon-help work under X?
Kyle Jones writes:
Andy Piper writes:
> At 13:38 24/10/98 +0200, Hrvoje Niksic wrote:
> >Not if you want to have the ability to attach glyphs and extents to
> >tooltip strings.
>
> Why would I want to do this :)
You might want to emphasize a word in the help string, which
would require an extent. Or you might want to put a glyph in
the balloon to give the user an exact picture of the button
they should press to initiate an action.
I don't understnad the resistance to the existing balloon help.
Presumably if the Windows port was done properly, balloon-help.el
should just work. It doesn't rely on X specific things as far as
I know.
There are two aesthetically undesirable characteristics. One is the
full Windows decorations around the balloon help. This makes them
look "heavy" and rather obtrusive. The other is that the extra base
frame is visible. It usually looks like a truncated piece of
something else and is just, plain wierd.
david
9:10 a.m.
New subject: how does ballon-help work under X?
At 14:35 25/10/98 -0800, Kyle Jones wrote:
Andy Piper writes:
> At 13:38 24/10/98 +0200, Hrvoje Niksic wrote:
> >Not if you want to have the ability to attach glyphs and extents to
> >tooltip strings.
>
> Why would I want to do this :)
You might want to emphasize a word in the help string, which
would require an extent. Or you might want to put a glyph in
the balloon to give the user an exact picture of the button
they should press to initiate an action.
I don't understnad the resistance to the existing balloon help.
Presumably if the Windows port was done properly, balloon-help.el
should just work. It doesn't rely on X specific things as far as
I know.
Slow and ugly. More importantly (and this touches on several flame wars)
Windows already has tooltips which look different to that produced by
ballon-help (and is also already used by the mswindows toolbars). We win no
prizes IMHO by producing non-standard balloon-help.
Anyway I'm not going to hack on it since I was originally only doing it
because I thought ballon-help-in-c was a feature that the X version of
XEmacs had which the windows version doesn't. SInce this is not true I
can't get very excited about it. Balloon help for toolbars works .....
andy
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
" .sigs are like your face - rarely seen by you and uglier than you think"
Dr Andy Piper, Technical Architect, Parallax Solutions Ltd
mail: andyp(a)parallax.co.uk web: www.parallax.co.uk/~andyp
3:01 a.m.
New subject: how does ballon-help work under X?
>>>> "Andy" == Andy Piper
<andyp(a)parallax.co.uk> writes:
Andy> At 13:38 24/10/98 +0200, Hrvoje Niksic wrote:
> Not if you want to have the ability to attach glyphs and
> extents to tooltip strings.
Andy> Why would I want to do this :)
Normal interface for attaching actions to text is via extents
(although I don't know if that works in strings). If that works for
these strings, you could presumably bind functions to call up Info or
the full Emacs docstrings to the balloon help.
If that doesn't work, maybe it should be made to work ;-)
--
University of Tsukuba Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences Telfax: +81 (298) 53-5091
__________________________________________________________________________
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What are those two straight lines for? "Free software rules."
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participants (5)
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Kyle Jones -
Stephen J. Turnbull