Ben Wing <ben(a)666.com&gt; writes: I would argue that the geometry management should be left up to the windowing system. This way things like detachable toolbars and menubars can be implemented on widget sets/platforms that support it. I _really_ don't think XEmacs should get into trying to do dockable toolbars/etc in its own way. For instance, I cannot find any good way to allow a dockable toolbar in XEmacs/GTK because the XEmacs redisplay reserves space at the top of the frame for it and expects you to draw into it. I originally used a 'real' GTK toolbar, but it was a pain in the !＠!＠$! to try and make it detachable because there was then a really big ugly blank spot where it used to be. I think we should change redisplay to know basically nothing about these areas. Most of them don't make sense on a TTY anyway (maybe menubars, but they typically take up too much valuable screen real-estate on a tty). Writing a basic geometry manager for XEmacs on top of a decent curses library wouldn't be too hard. If we make every redisplay target _but_ TTYs easier, I think it would justify making the TTY support a bit harder. If people want to see what a status-bar-using XEmacs would look like, I could hack the XEmacs/GTK to do it pretty easily. Would just need to change append-message to talk directly to a statusbar widget instead of using the ' Echo Area' nastiness. But this would entain ickiness with MULE text sent to those widgets, etc. Urk If people are interested in seeing it, let me know. I can probably implement it all in lisp, which will be nice. -Bill P.