1:21 a.m.
I can set a background pix-map in the default face, and it works fine.
When I set a background pixmap in the face for any of the:
Menubar
Toolbar
Tabbar
it does not work.
No errors, just doesn't show the pix-map on the screen.
It *does* change the preview box in the customize face buffer, the sample
does indeed have the correct background shown for all three faces for the
tabbar, toolbar, and menubar.
So something at least is recognizing my pix-map--just not on the screen.
Any idea what I have to do to get a background pixmap to work in those
three areas?
Steve M.
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1:52 a.m.
On Mon, 10 Dec 2012 20:21:54 -0500
steven Mitchell <smitchel(a)bnin.net> wrote:
I can set a background pix-map in the default face, and it works
fine.
When I set a background pixmap in the face for any of the:
Menubar
Toolbar
Tabbar
it does not work.
No errors, just doesn't show the pix-map on the screen.
It *does* change the preview box in the customize face buffer, the
sample does indeed have the correct background shown for all three
faces for the tabbar, toolbar, and menubar.
So something at least is recognizing my pix-map--just not on the
screen.
Any idea what I have to do to get a background pixmap to work in
those three areas?
I believe you have to set them in your .Xdefaults file using X
resources.
Cheers,
Sean
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3:28 a.m.
Sean MacLennan writes:
> It *does* change the preview box in the customize face buffer,
the
> sample does indeed have the correct background shown for all three
> faces for the tabbar, toolbar, and menubar.
Those widgets are implemented at the X level, not in XEmacs proper.
The interface to faces is a major kludge, and barely gets fonts right
(except it's worse under Xft, where only ISO-8859-1 works IIRC).
> Any idea what I have to do to get a background pixmap to work
in
> those three areas?
I believe you have to set them in your .Xdefaults file using X
resources.
I think that should work (modulo I'm not sure if we support .Xdefaults
any more; the modern way is .Xresources and xrdb), and there is a way
to access and mutate X resources from Lisp (x-get-resource and
x-put-resource).
It would be nice if Custom could be taught to do this, maybe. (I
haven't thought that through, though, it might be a horrible idea. ;-)
Steve
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6:30 a.m.
On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 12:28:37 +0900
"Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen(a)xemacs.org> wrote:
I think that should work (modulo I'm not sure if we support
.Xdefaults
any more; the modern way is .Xresources and xrdb), and there is a way
to access and mutate X resources from Lisp (x-get-resource and
x-put-resource).
Oops, this could be. I actually put XEmacs resources
in .Xdefaults-xemacs and force load them in .xinitrc:
xrdb -merge $HOME/.Xdefaults-xemacs
I do the same with my .Xdefaults file.
Cheers,
Sean
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9:31 p.m.
On 12/10/2012 10:28 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
Sean MacLennan writes:
> > It *does* change the preview box in the customize face buffer, the
> > sample does indeed have the correct background shown for all three
> > faces for the tabbar, toolbar, and menubar.
Those widgets are implemented at the X level, not in XEmacs proper.
The interface to faces is a major kludge, and barely gets fonts right
(except it's worse under Xft, where only ISO-8859-1 works IIRC).
> > Any idea what I have to do to get a background pixmap to work in
> > those three areas?
>
> I believe you have to set them in your .Xdefaults file using X
> resources.
I think that should work (modulo I'm not sure if we support .Xdefaults
any more; the modern way is .Xresources and xrdb), and there is a way
to access and mutate X resources from Lisp (x-get-resource and
x-put-resource).
It would be nice if Custom could be taught to do this, maybe. (I
haven't thought that through, though, it might be a horrible idea. ;-)
Steve
I looked into specifying it in the .Xresources file, and while that may
be possible,
you would have to know the exact name of the setting you are trying to set.
Something similar to:
Emacs.menubar*attributeForeground:
Emacs.menubar*attributeBackground:
If the Athena widgets were compiled with Xaw-Xpm, a variant of Xaw-3d,
it might
give background pixmaps to all widgets, buttons, widgets in buffers,
scrollbars, etc.
But Xaw-Xpm won't compile as is, compiler flags from 1996 with -m486, etc.
1996 was the last time it was updated, it looks like.
At 27.12.3 in the XEmacs User Manual, there is a list of Xresources, and
nothing
there looks like a background pixmap.
Perhaps there is someplace else to look for more Xresources that XEmacs
can use?
I'm about ready to conclude that they are not implemented, after looking
for info
on this in lucid widgets (lwlib) and scouring the internet.
I was successful in getting the background pixmap set for the modeline.
So background pixmaps can be used in the main display area and in the
modeline,
but those two places are the only ones I can get to work.
Are they generated differently than other parts of the XEmacs screen?
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11:39 p.m.
On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 16:31:00 -0500
steven Mitchell <smitchel(a)bnin.net> wrote:
Perhaps there is someplace else to look for more Xresources that
XEmacs can use?
I enabled the lines I had in my .Xdefaults file that dealt with
pixmaps. None of them worked..... all I did was get a lot of errors:
Warning: No type converter registered for 'String' to 'Pixmap'
conversion.
So it looks like somewhere along the way pixmaps were broken? This is
all with 21.4.22 not 21.5.
Cheers,
Sean
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4:09 a.m.
Sean MacLennan writes:
So it looks like somewhere along the way pixmaps were broken? This
is
all with 21.4.22 not 21.5.
Is it possible you disabled those settings because you stopped building
with Xaw-XPM?
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4:07 a.m.
steven Mitchell writes:
I looked into specifying it in the .Xresources file, and while that
may be possible, you would have to know the exact name of the
setting you are trying to set.
That's precisely why I mentioned Custom.
At 27.12.3 in the XEmacs User Manual, there is a list of
Xresources, and nothing there looks like a background pixmap.
Perhaps there is someplace else to look for more Xresources that XEmacs
can use?
Those resources are pretty much restricted to the ones implemented by
XEmacs itself. XEmacs can use any resources that are available in the
toolkits it uses, of course.
Charles Waldman Nostalgia Trigger Warning!! Get out the vinyl, Charles!
XEmacs participates in the editres protocol. AFAIK it's not an
option, it's always built-in. So just fire up the editres client and
start clicking away, and explore as you like. (We don' need no
steekin' gobject introspection protocol! ;-)
So background pixmaps can be used in the main display area and in
the modeline, but those two places are the only ones I can get to
work.
Are they generated differently than other parts of the XEmacs screen?
Yes. The menubar, the tabs, the progress gauge, the toolbar, and the
scrollbar are self-contained widgets implemented in lwlib/, in several
cases as derivatives of widgets provided by some 3rd-party widget set
(eg, Xaw).
The text area, the modeline, the echo area/minibuffer, and the fringes
are "panes" (non-widget subobjects, not even X windows IIRC) of the
all-mighty EmacsFrame "widget" implemented pretty much from scratch in
src/.
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7:50 a.m.
On 12/11/2012 11:07 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
XEmacs participates in the editres protocol. AFAIK it's not an
option, it's always built-in. So just fire up the editres client and
start clicking away, and explore as you like.
I had tried using editres yesterday,
started from a command line, typed
editres
then when it came up, under commands, ran "get tree" and clicked on a
running
XEmacs. It said "Message sent to client asking for widget tree."
Then after 30 seconds or so, says "It appears that this client does not
understand
the editres protocol."
That is clicking on an icon in the toolbar.
I read editres again and clicked on a dialog box for find (search) and
it returns an error
in the minibuffer:
received an unexpected SelectionNotify event
Same result with a File-->Open dialog box.
Could it be my configuration?
Here's the output of current installation info form the help menu:
(and yes, you talked me into installing --with-mule)
uname -a: Linux dataman 3.2.29 #2 SMP Mon Sep 17 14:19:22 CDT 2012
x86_64 AMD FX(tm)-8150 Eight-Core Processor AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux
./configure '--with-menubars=lucid' '--with-toolbars'
'--with-xpm'
'--with-mule'
XEmacs 21.5-b32 "habanero" configured for `x86_64-unknown-linux'.
Compilation Environment and Installation Defaults:
Source code location: /usr/src/xemacs-21.5.32
Installation prefix: /usr/local
Operating system description file: `s/linux.h'
Not using any machine description file
Compiler version: gcc (GCC) 4.7.1
- GCC specs file: /usr/lib64/gcc/x86_64-slackware-linux/4.7.1/specs
- Compiler command: gcc -Wall -Wno-switch -Wundef
-Wsign-compare -Wno-char-subscripts -Wpacked -Wshadow
-Wmissing-declarations -Wmissing-prototypes -Wstrict-prototypes
-Wdeclaration-after-statement -Wunused-parameter -g
libc version:
Relocating allocator for buffers: no
GNU version of malloc: yes
- Using Doug Lea's new malloc from the GNU C Library.
Window System:
Compiling in support for the X window system:
- X Windows headers location: /usr/X11/include
- X Windows libraries location:
- Handling WM_COMMAND properly.
Compiling in support for the Athena widget set:
- Athena headers location: X11/Xaw
- Athena library to link: Xaw
Using Lucid menubars.
Using Lucid scrollbars.
Using Athena dialog boxes.
Using Athena native widgets.
TTY:
Compiling in support for ncurses.
Compiling in support for GPM (General Purpose Mouse).
Images:
Compiling in support for GIF images.
Compiling in support for XPM images.
Compiling in support for PNG images.
Compiling in support for JPEG images.
Compiling in support for TIFF images.
Sound:
Compiling in support for sound (native).
Compiling in support for ALSA (Advanced Linux Sound Architecture).
Databases:
Compiling in support for Berkeley database.
Compiling in support for LDAP.
Internationalization:
Compiling in support for Mule (multi-lingual Emacs).
Compiling in support for XIM (X11R5+ I18N input method).
- Using raw Xlib to provide XIM support.
Mail:
Compiling in support for "file" mail spool file locking method.
Other Features:
Inhibiting IPv6 canonicalization at startup.
Compiling in support for dynamic shared object modules.
Using the new GC mark algorithms (KKCC).
WARNING: ---------------------------------------------------------
WARNING: The new algorithms are experimental. They are enabled by
WARNING: default for this release. Use `--disable-kkcc' to
WARNING: turn it off.
WARNING: ---------------------------------------------------------
Using the new portable dumper.
Dumping into executable.
Compiling in support for extra debugging code.
Compiling in support for runtime error checking.
WARNING: ---------------------------------------------------------
WARNING: XEmacs will run noticeably more slowly as a result.
WARNING: Error checking is on by default for XEmacs beta releases.
WARNING: ---------------------------------------------------------
Steve
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7:09 a.m.
steven Mitchell writes:
I read editres again and clicked on a dialog box for find (search)
and
it returns an error
in the minibuffer:
received an unexpected SelectionNotify event
It's not just you. A little different for me: I see that warning
immediately. That may be due to some difference in XEmacs
configurations, but the breakage itself is more likely due to a
difference in the Xmu library (the X.org folks have spent the last
several years doing "mung until no good", and they've been successful
in introducing a lot of no good :-( ), or perhaps to changes in the
XEmacs event loop.
Too bad, that was a great tool for figuring out what XEmacs's GUI was
actually doing on X. I'll see if I can fix it, but I have no idea
offhand what's going on so it may take a while.
Steve
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8:48 a.m.
Stephen J. Turnbull writes:
steven Mitchell writes:
> I read editres again and clicked on a dialog box for find (search) and
> it returns an error
> in the minibuffer:
> received an unexpected SelectionNotify event
It's not just you. A little different for me: I see that warning
immediately. That may be due to some difference in XEmacs
configurations [...]
my XEmacs works fine with editres, and in the past editres has beeen
very useful for over-tweaking XEmacs ... ;-)
I don't know if my installation file could be useful to spot the
differences between the configuration of an editres enabled XEmacs and
one that's not, but it's down there, in attachment
thank you all for the great work,
g
uname -a: Linux aiuole 3.2.0-3-686-pae #1 SMP Mon Jul 23 03:50:34 UTC 2012 i686 GNU/Linux
./configure '--with-optimization' '--with-xft=emacs,menubars'
'--with-athena=3d' '--with-menubars=lucid'
'--with-scrollbars=lucid' '--with-dialogs=lucid'
'--with-widgets=athena' '--with-tty' '--with-ncurses'
'--with-gpm' '--with-xpm' '--with-png' '--with-jpeg'
'--with-tiff' '--with-xface' '--with-gif'
'--with-sound=none' '--with-mule' '--with-xim=xlib'
'--with-zlib' '--with-database=berkdb' '--with-pop'
'--with-rel-alloc' '--with-pdump' '--with-newgc'
'--with-modules' '--with-bignum=gmp' '--with-debug'
'--with-error-checking=none'
XEmacs 21.5-b32 "habanero" b0d40183ac79 configured for `i686-pc-linux'.
Compilation Environment and Installation Defaults:
Source code location: /home/boffi/src/xemacs
Installation prefix: /usr/local
Operating system description file: `s/linux.h'
Machine description file: `m/intel386.h'
Compiler version: gcc (Debian 4.7.1-7) 4.7.1
- GCC specs file: specs.
- Compiler command: gcc -Wall -Wno-switch -Wundef -Wsign-compare
-Wno-char-subscripts -Wpacked -Wshadow -Wmissing-declarations -Wmissing-prototypes
-Wstrict-prototypes -Wdeclaration-after-statement -Wunused-parameter -g -O3
-fno-strict-aliasing
libc version: GNU libc 2.13-35 (Debian)
Relocating allocator for buffers: yes
GNU version of malloc: yes
- Using Doug Lea's new malloc from the GNU C Library.
Package Search (a 'root' contains '{xemacs,mule,site}-packages'):
User package roots: ~/.xemacs
System package roots: /usr/local/share/xemacs
Window System:
Compiling in support for the X window system:
- X Windows headers location:
- X Windows libraries location:
- Handling WM_COMMAND properly.
- Using fontconfig to manage fonts.
- Compiling in support for Xft antialiased fonts (EXPERIMENTAL).
Compiling in support for the Athena widget set:
- Athena headers location: X11/Xaw3d
- Athena library to link: Xaw3d
Using Lucid menubars.
- Using Xft to render antialiased fonts in menubars.
WARNING: This Xft feature will be replaced with a face.
Using Lucid scrollbars.
Using Athena dialog boxes.
Using Athena native widgets.
TTY:
Compiling in support for ncurses.
Compiling in support for GPM (General Purpose Mouse).
Images:
Compiling in support for GIF images.
Compiling in support for XPM images.
Compiling in support for PNG images.
Compiling in support for JPEG images.
Compiling in support for TIFF images.
Compiling in support for X-Face message headers.
Sound:
Databases:
Internationalization:
Compiling in support for Mule (multi-lingual Emacs).
Compiling in support for XIM (X11R5+ I18N input method).
- Using raw Xlib to provide XIM support.
Mail:
Compiling in support for POP mail retrieval.
Compiling in support for "file" mail spool file locking method.
Other Features:
Inhibiting IPv6 canonicalization at startup.
Compiling in support for dynamic shared object modules.
Compiling in support for more number types using the GNU MP library.
Using the new GC mark algorithms (KKCC).
WARNING: ---------------------------------------------------------
WARNING: The new algorithms are experimental. They are enabled by
WARNING: default for this release. Use `--disable-kkcc' to
WARNING: turn it off.
WARNING: ---------------------------------------------------------
Using the new incremental garbage collector and the new allocator.
Using POSIX sigaction() to install fault handler.
Using the new portable dumper.
Compiling in support for extra debugging code.
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2:58 p.m.
On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 1:48 AM, Giacomo Boffi <giacomo.boffi(a)polimi.it> wrote:
my XEmacs works fine with editres, and in the past editres has beeen
very useful for over-tweaking XEmacs ... ;-)
Editres works fine for me too, on a Fedora Linux box. We're both
using Linux. Those of you for whom editres does not work: what OS are
you using?
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8:17 a.m.
Jerry James writes:
On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 1:48 AM, Giacomo Boffi
<giacomo.boffi(a)polimi.it> wrote:
> my XEmacs works fine with editres, and in the past editres has beeen
> very useful for over-tweaking XEmacs ... ;-)
Editres works fine for me too, on a Fedora Linux box. We're both
using Linux. Those of you for whom editres does not work: what OS are
you using?
I can add Mac OS X 10.7 "Snow Leopard" (previously mentioned) and a
reasonably fresh (emerge --update ＠world within the last week)
Gentoo. I'll try Ubuntu in a Parallels VM later.
I suspect Fedora has a patched editres, Xaw, or Xmu.
Steve
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8:51 a.m.
On 2012-12-14, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen(a)xemacs.org> wrote:
Jerry James writes:
> Editres works fine for me too, on a Fedora Linux box. We're both
> using Linux. Those of you for whom editres does not work: what OS are
> you using?
I can add Mac OS X 10.7 "Snow Leopard" (previously
mentioned) and a
reasonably fresh (emerge --update ＠world within the last week)
Gentoo. I'll try Ubuntu in a Parallels VM later.
Editres works on OpenSuSE too.
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10:48 a.m.
Stephen J. Turnbull writes:
Jerry James writes:
> On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 1:48 AM, Giacomo Boffi <giacomo.boffi(a)polimi.it>
wrote:
> > my XEmacs works fine with editres, and in the past editres has beeen
> > very useful for over-tweaking XEmacs ... ;-)
>
> Editres works fine for me too, on a Fedora Linux box. We're both
> using Linux. Those of you for whom editres does not work: what OS are
> you using?
I can add Mac OS X 10.7 "Snow Leopard" (previously mentioned) and a
reasonably fresh (emerge --update ＠world within the last week)
Gentoo. I'll try Ubuntu in a Parallels VM later.
I suspect Fedora has a patched editres, Xaw, or Xmu.
also on Debian sid editres and XEmacs talk to each other
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12:30 p.m.
Re editres:
Possibly a (rather old) Xmu bug (reported as, e.g. Debian 521887) is still
unfixed in some places?
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4:56 p.m.
Julian Bradfield writes:
Re editres:
Possibly a (rather old) Xmu bug (reported as, e.g. Debian 521887) is still
unfixed in some places?
Seems unlikely to be the cause, since (a) libXmu is at FDO version
1.1.1 on both Mac and Gentoo, and (b) editres works on itself but not
on other apps on Mac and (c) neither editres nor XEmacs seems to be
bothered. It's just that XEmacs (among other apps) is not responding
appropriately to the editres protocol.
I'll keep it in mind for next time I look, of course.
Steve
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3:09 p.m.
On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 1:17 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen(a)xemacs.org> wrote:
I suspect Fedora has a patched editres, Xaw, or Xmu.
I took a look. Fedora 17 has unpatched editres 1.0.5, unpatched
libXaw 1.0.11, and unpatched libXmu 1.1.1.
The bug Julian referred to does break editres on 64-bit platforms. It
was fixed in libXmu 1.0.5.
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5:25 p.m.
Jerry James writes:
On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 1:17 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull
<stephen(a)xemacs.org> wrote:
> I suspect Fedora has a patched editres, Xaw, or Xmu.
I took a look. Fedora 17 has unpatched editres 1.0.5, unpatched
libXaw 1.0.11, and unpatched libXmu 1.1.1.
Thanks for checking. It's something platform-related, not XEmacs
(most likely) since the other two apps I tried (GNU Emacs and XTerm)
both fail on both platforms, and the libraries I build XEmacs with are
up to date on both platforms (this is not necessarily true of editres
or libXmu as distributed by Apple, but it is true on Gentoo).
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7:50 a.m.
Giacomo Boffi writes:
my XEmacs works fine with editres,
Good to hear. I've discovered that editres doesn't work with Emacs or
xterm on my system (Mac OS X "Snow Leopard"). In fact the only client
that I know editres works on it editres itself!
and in the past editres has beeen
very useful for over-tweaking XEmacs ... ;-)
I don't know if my installation file could be useful to spot the
differences between the configuration of an editres enabled XEmacs and
one that's not, but it's down there, in attachment
Dunno. I'll try a build to see if it helps. The issue may simply be
the platform(s) (although I think Steve M is on GNU/Linux too?)
Thanks for the info, though! It is very useful to know that XEmacs
can work with editres on modern platforms.
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7:42 a.m.
Stephen J. Turnbull writes:
Too bad, [editres] was a great tool for figuring out what
XEmacs's
GUI was actually doing on X. I'll see if I can fix it, but I have
no idea offhand what's going on so it may take a while.
I couldn't resist. No joy. (When referring to X11, "use the source,
Luke" is the moral equivalent of hazing a fraternity pledge.)
I think the right thing to do is to add the equivalent introspection
capability directly to XEmacs, probably by converting the Lucid Widget
Library to the Elisp Widget Library. Unfortunately, that isn't going
to happen overnight.
Steve
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8:57 a.m.
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
I think that should work (modulo I'm not sure if we support
.Xdefaults
any more; the modern way is .Xresources and xrdb)
or (even more modern ?) ~/etc/X11/app-default/XEmacs provided that you
have XUSERFILESEARCHPATH set to ~/etc/X11/app-defaults/%N
It would be nice if Custom could be taught to do this, maybe. (I
haven't thought that through, though, it might be a horrible idea. ;-)
I don't see what Custom has to do with this. The real problem is the
incomplete integration of faces and widgets, regardless of how you
actually specify the face properties.
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Scientific site: http://www.lrde.epita.fr/~didier
Music (Jazz) site: http://www.didierverna.com
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7:15 a.m.
Didier Verna writes:
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> It would be nice if Custom could be taught to [set resources on
> widgets], maybe. (I haven't thought that through, though, it
> might be a horrible idea. ;-)
I don't see what Custom has to do with this. The real problem is the
incomplete integration of faces and widgets, regardless of how you
actually specify the face properties.
We have a Lisp function to set resources. *If* the appropriate
resources for background pixmaps exist, *then* Custom could set them
with a menu-style interface instead of user needing to figure it out
for themselves.
I believe that many background pixmap resources do exist in most
modern versions of the major toolkits (how the hell could you provide
modern themes for GNOME/GTK+ and KDE/Qt if they don't support
background pixmaps in most widgets?), including Xaw. I could be
wrong, of course. :-) It's been a very long time since I poked into
that stuff.
Steve
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7:52 a.m.
Stephen J. Turnbull writes:
We have a Lisp function to set resources.
Sorry, this turns out to be false. `x-put-resource' sets a resource
in the environment using resource manager functionality, but it
doesn't change resources of XEmacs widgets on the fly.
w
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7:18 a.m.
Didier Verna writes:
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> I think that should work (modulo I'm not sure if we support .Xdefaults
> any more; the modern way is .Xresources and xrdb)
or (even more modern ?) ~/etc/X11/app-default/XEmacs provided that you
have XUSERFILESEARCHPATH set to ~/etc/X11/app-defaults/%N
Local app-defaults are part of the old Xdefaults system. One reason
for xrdb was so that you could control both local and remote systems
on the fly with one API/UI.
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8:51 a.m.
Hi Steve,
[ I just saw your comments on my blog and also answered there ]
steven Mitchell <smitchel(a)bnin.net> wrote:
I can set a background pix-map in the default face, and it works
fine.
When I set a background pixmap in the face for any of the:
Menubar
Toolbar
Tabbar
it does not work.
Not all face properties are used when talking to toolkit widgets (I'm
not even sure we could have all of them work with every toolkit,
notably "foreign" ones like Motif of Gtk). That's why you don't see
the effect you want in the menubars of toolbars. The corresponding
faces, however, are handled like any other faces in XEmacs and hence
you do see the effect in the custom buffers.
--
Resistance is futile. You will be jazzimilated.
Scientific site: http://www.lrde.epita.fr/~didier
Music (Jazz) site: http://www.didierverna.com
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25 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
Didier Verna -
Giacomo Boffi -
Jerry James -
Julian Bradfield -
Sean MacLennan -
Stephen J. Turnbull -
steven Mitchell