11:18 p.m.
So, the wife is going out of town for a week and liam has school in the
afternoons, and I don't need much sleep. Soooo... I'm going to try and get
XEmacs/GTK upgrade to the 21.2 source base by friday. This will hopefully
include all the fancy glyph stuff andy has done.
Any objections? This would land on the main 21.2 branch. I really think
GTK should be made the default on systems that support it, and that is how
the 21.1.12 patches work, but for the first set of patches you would be
required to do --with-gtk=yes (or --with-gnome=yes).
-Bill P.
1:54 a.m.
>>>> "-BP" == William M Perry
<wmperry(a)aventail.com> writes:
-BP> Any objections? This would land on the main 21.2 branch. I
-BP> really think GTK should be made the default on systems that
-BP> support it, and that is how
GTK still doesn't support multiple X displays, right? I need that a
lot more than I need prettier dialogs---I see a dialog about once a
week.... Of course, this is a personal issue and should be handled by
my own configuration.
Also, until GTK is used for Custom, I think it's going to look
very very half-assed. Dunno about the rest of the world, but aside
from the toolbar, scrollbar, and menubar, where GTK's net effect is
negative (the menubar is detachable :), the only GUI I see is in
Custom.
On that basis, my vote is "not yet".
--
University of Tsukuba Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences Tel/fax: +81 (298) 53-5091
_________________ _________________ _________________ _________________
What are those straight lines for? "XEmacs rules."
8:47 a.m.
At 09:54 AM 9/4/00 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
On that basis, my vote is "not yet".
I assume this is "not yet" to it being the default rather than "not
yet" to
it being integrated?
andy
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dr Andy Piper
Principal Consultant, BEA Systems Ltd
4:22 p.m.
>>>> "Andy" == Andy Piper <andyp(a)bea.com>
writes:
sjt> On that basis, my vote is "not yet".
Andy> I assume this is "not yet" to it being the default rather
Andy> than "not yet" to it being integrated?
Yes. It's not going to bitrot, quite the reverse, and it's something
we want to do sooner rather than later. I want it integrated for
anybody who has time to play with it. I have it checked out myself.
But Mule (for one thing) makes me nervous. GTK's (Asian) I18N is not
well documented. And there's all this very destabilizing activity on
that front (Pango, for example). Plus the (possible) instabilities I
described in another message.
--
University of Tsukuba Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences Tel/fax: +81 (298) 53-5091
_________________ _________________ _________________ _________________
What are those straight lines for? "XEmacs rules."
8:31 a.m.
>>>> "Bill" == William M Perry
<wmperry(a)aventail.com> writes:
Bill> So, the wife is going out of town for a week and liam has school in the
Bill> afternoons, and I don't need much sleep. Soooo... I'm going to try and
get
Bill> XEmacs/GTK upgrade to the 21.2 source base by friday. This will hopefully
Bill> include all the fancy glyph stuff andy has done.
Bill> Any objections? This would land on the main 21.2 branch. I really think
Bill> GTK should be made the default on systems that support it, and that is how
Bill> the 21.1.12 patches work, but for the first set of patches you would be
Bill> required to do --with-gtk=yes (or --with-gnome=yes).
I think putting the gtk changes on the main branch directly is far too
aggressive.
I would like to see:
- Bill upgrades his branch to 21.2 (or creates a new branch for
xemacs-gtk-21.2).
- Bill `finishes' the xemacs-gtk work, including boring stuff like
documentation, NEWS, and maybe even some test cases. Maybe a web
page could explain WHY we are creating a gtk-xemacs. I for one am
not sure. Bill, get thee a sourceforge account so you can write
that web page.
- Bill advertises this branch as a new 21.2 candidate. Of course this
branch defaults to --with-gtk=no.
- People try to use the xemacs-gtk-21.2 branch for their default
XEmacs and pound on random keys for a few months.
- After a month or two or three, when people see stability and
coolness, we merge xemacs-gtk-21.2 onto the main branch.
- When everyone sees the goodness that is GTK, we consider making
--with-gtk (autodetected, of course) the default.
- There is nothing stopping Bill from incorporating changes from 21.2
occasionally into his branch. Of course, this requires discipline
regarding branch names and a good understanding of the merge process.
Actually, I would like to see this for all major changes, not just
GTK. We haven't done that in the past. I'm very happy that Bill is
using CVS branches, and I wish other big changes did the same.
Regarding the timing of the merge, I would hope that Ben's
Mule/Windows changes come at a distinct period of time from the gtk
merge onto the main branch. It is better if XEmacs is only digesting
one major source of changes at a time.
Martin
10:32 a.m.
Although I am generally cautious by nature, IMHO this is too cautious - my
reasons are:
a) gtk has been implemented as a separate device/console
b) gtk has a separate event loop
c) gtk does not use lwlib.
So I believe that if people are not using gtk then the impact on them will
be insignifcant because the code changes are all in gtk specific files. The
abstractions in 21.2 are pretty clean so if there are any changes required
to the core code they are probably required anyway.
Of course not having looked at the code, BillP may need to correct me on this.
I do, of course, agree that switching on gtk by default is way too aggressive.
andy
At 04:31 PM 9/5/00 +0900, Martin Buchholz wrote:
I think putting the gtk changes on the main branch directly is far
too
aggressive.
I would like to see:
- Bill upgrades his branch to 21.2 (or creates a new branch for
xemacs-gtk-21.2).
- Bill `finishes' the xemacs-gtk work, including boring stuff like
documentation, NEWS, and maybe even some test cases. Maybe a web
page could explain WHY we are creating a gtk-xemacs. I for one am
not sure. Bill, get thee a sourceforge account so you can write
that web page.
- Bill advertises this branch as a new 21.2 candidate. Of course this
branch defaults to --with-gtk=no.
- People try to use the xemacs-gtk-21.2 branch for their default
XEmacs and pound on random keys for a few months.
- After a month or two or three, when people see stability and
coolness, we merge xemacs-gtk-21.2 onto the main branch.
- When everyone sees the goodness that is GTK, we consider making
--with-gtk (autodetected, of course) the default.
- There is nothing stopping Bill from incorporating changes from 21.2
occasionally into his branch. Of course, this requires discipline
regarding branch names and a good understanding of the merge process.
Actually, I would like to see this for all major changes, not just
GTK. We haven't done that in the past. I'm very happy that Bill is
using CVS branches, and I wish other big changes did the same.
Regarding the timing of the merge, I would hope that Ben's
Mule/Windows changes come at a distinct period of time from the gtk
merge onto the main branch. It is better if XEmacs is only digesting
one major source of changes at a time.
Ben's changes are very different because they potentially affect everyone.
andy
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dr Andy Piper
Principal Consultant, BEA Systems Ltd
8845
days inactive
8848
days old
5 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
-
Andy Piper -
Martin Buchholz -
Stephen J. Turnbull -
William M. Perry