Well, my proposal was accepted by the BeOpen folks on SourceXchange, so I'm going to start working on the various documents outlining how I'll be replacing the lwlib/motif/athena/etc widgets with gtk or qt. 99.9% sure it is going to have to be gtk after talking with stallman and the discussion we had on the mailing list a few weeks ago. Ah well... But while I was sketching out some things, and looking at the current EmacsFrame widget I wondered why we should even bother having the toolbars and menubars managed differently than the various 'gutters' that andy has implemented. If I'm going to be completely rewriting large chunks of that code, why not take the next step and just use the gutter than andy has worked so hard on? Things like scrollbars would still need to be done in the core I think (because they go with windows not frames). The basic idea would be to simplify the XEmacs window to just be an X Window with gutters on all 4 sides. When you turn on the toolbar, something just gets added to the top gutter. When you turn on the menubar, ditto. This would entail making 'toolbar' and 'menubar' widgets accesible like 'button' and 'progress-gauge', but I don't think that would be very hard. As a side-benefit this would allow you to have multiple menubars, and multiple toolbars visible at once. Just imagine... a XEmacs completely surrounded my toolbars. *shudder* Thoughts, comments, etc?