1:34 p.m.
Hi
The change of mapping of C-z from suspend-or-iconify-emacs to
zap-up-to-char, in XEmacs 21.5.16 in my opinion, is a nasty surprise.
I am used to pressing C-z and then continue typing on the terminal
hidden below XEmacs. When I did that the first time on 21.5.16 I lost
a bunch of data. Sure, I could undo it, but it took me a while to
realize what happened. I just wanted to say that I am not happy with
this change and I hope changing such benign mappings into destructive
ones went through some discussion and was done for a good reason and
not just committed on a whim.
kaarthik
2:27 p.m.
Kaarthik Sivakumar <kaarthik(a)comcast.net> writes:
The change of mapping of C-z from suspend-or-iconify-emacs to
zap-up-to-char, in XEmacs 21.5.16 in my opinion, is a nasty
surprise. I am used to pressing C-z and then continue typing on the
terminal hidden below XEmacs. When I did that the first time on
21.5.16 I lost a bunch of data. Sure, I could undo it, but it took
me a while to realize what happened. I just wanted to say that I am
not happy with this change and I hope changing such benign mappings
into destructive ones went through some discussion and was done for
a good reason and not just committed on a whim.
I don't remember a discussion about that, but I could have missed it
just as well. I would like the mapping to return.
3:40 p.m.
Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic(a)xemacs.org> writes:
Kaarthik Sivakumar <kaarthik(a)comcast.net> writes:
> The change of mapping of C-z from suspend-or-iconify-emacs to
> zap-up-to-char, in XEmacs 21.5.16 in my opinion, is a nasty
> surprise. I am used to pressing C-z and then continue typing on the
> terminal hidden below XEmacs. When I did that the first time on
> 21.5.16 I lost a bunch of data. Sure, I could undo it, but it took
> me a while to realize what happened. I just wanted to say that I am
> not happy with this change and I hope changing such benign mappings
> into destructive ones went through some discussion and was done for
> a good reason and not just committed on a whim.
I don't remember a discussion about that, but I could have missed it
just as well. I would like the mapping to return.
I don't recall a discussion either. It looks like it was done for
compatibility with FSF Emacs:
From keydefs.el:
;; FSFmacs keyboard.c
(define-key global-tty-map "\C-z" 'suspend-emacs)
(define-key global-window-system-map "\C-z" 'zap-up-to-char)
(define-key global-window-system-map '(control Z) 'iconify-frame)
(define-key global-map "\C-x\C-z" 'suspend-or-iconify-emacs)
so, ctrl-shift-z will do what c-z used to do. I think I, too, favor
restoring the old binding.
- vin
--
In a minute there is time
For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse. T.S. Eliot
[URL: http://www.cs.amherst.edu/~ccm/prufrock.html]
6:11 p.m.
On Tue, Jan 20 2004, Vin Shelton wrote:
I don't recall a discussion either. It looks like it was done
for
compatibility with FSF Emacs:
There has been some discussion about changing `C-z' on emacs-devel[1].
But it wasn't changed yet. Current Emacs CVS HEAD and 21.3 both
have...
,----[ `C-h k C-z' ]
| C-z runs the command iconify-or-deiconify-frame
| which is an interactive compiled Lisp function in `frame'.
| It is bound to C-z, C-x C-z.
| (iconify-or-deiconify-frame)
|
| Iconify the selected frame, or deiconify if it's currently an icon.
`----
Bye, Reiner.
[1] <URL:http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel/17430>
--
,,,
(o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- PGP key available via WWW http://rsteib.home.pages.de/
3:51 p.m.
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 15:27:35 +0100
Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic(a)xemacs.org> wrote:
> The change of mapping of C-z from suspend-or-iconify-emacs to
> zap-up-to-char, in XEmacs 21.5.16 in my opinion, is a nasty
> surprise.
h> I don't remember a discussion about that, but I could have missed it
h> just as well. I would like the mapping to return.
While we're at it. I'd propose to bring back "d d" combination
(cvs-mode-diff) in pcl-cvs. Currently there is "d =" bound to the same
defun. It always was "d d", but got changed during the last couple of
years. I do not know why, given that "d d" became unoccupied.
I remap it in my .emacs, sure, but.
Thanks,
--alexm
4 p.m.
* Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic(a)xemacs.org> writes:
Kaarthik Sivakumar <kaarthik(a)comcast.net> writes:
> I just wanted to say that I am not happy with this change and I
> hope changing such benign mappings into destructive ones went
> through some discussion and was done for a good reason and not
> just committed on a whim.
I don't remember a discussion about that, but I could have
missed
it just as well.
Yeah, there was a discussion. Can't remember which list or how long
ago now. Here's a clue as to who the culprit was...
,----[ From sample.init in 21.4 ]
| ;; The standard definition of C-z causes iconification on window
| ;; systems, which is both useless and annoying.
`----
I would like the mapping to return.
Your wish is a patch en route to xemacs-patches. :-)
--
|---<Steve Youngs>---------------<GnuPG KeyID: A94B3003>---|
| XEmacs - The only _______ you'll ever need. |
| Fill in the blank, yes, it's THAT good! |
|------------------------------<sryoungs(a)bigpond.net.au>---|
4:26 p.m.
>>>> "SY" == Steve Youngs
<sryoungs(a)bigpond.net.au> writes:
SY> * Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic(a)xemacs.org> writes:
> Kaarthik Sivakumar <kaarthik(a)comcast.net> writes:
>> I just wanted to say that I am not happy with this change and I
>> hope changing such benign mappings into destructive ones went
>> through some discussion and was done for a good reason and not
>> just committed on a whim.
> I don't remember a discussion about that, but I could have
missed
> it just as well.
SY> Yeah, there was a discussion. Can't remember which list or how long
SY> ago now. Here's a clue as to who the culprit was...
SY> ,----[ From sample.init in 21.4 ]
SY> | ;; The standard definition of C-z causes iconification on window
SY> | ;; systems, which is both useless and annoying.
SY> `----
Let me cast my vote for leaving it as it is. :-)
I also find it *way* annoying when I accidentally hit C-z instead of
C-x and my emacs window is gone and I'm now typing into something
else.
For casual users, I would think this is confusing too. Hey! Where
did emacs go? It must have crashed again, damnit!
:-)
Ray
5:29 p.m.
Raymond Toy writes:
>>>>> "SY" == Steve Youngs
<sryoungs(a)bigpond.net.au> writes:
SY> Yeah, there was a discussion. Can't remember which list or how long
SY> ago now. Here's a clue as to who the culprit was...
SY> ,----[ From sample.init in 21.4 ]
SY> | ;; The standard definition of C-z causes iconification on window
SY> | ;; systems, which is both useless and annoying.
SY> `----
Let me cast my vote for leaving it as it is. :-)
i also prefer the current behaviour
For casual users, I would think this is confusing too. Hey! Where
did emacs go? It must have crashed again, damnit!
maybe C-z's behaviour should be controlled by some custom variable,
settable within the Options menu hierarchy
2:03 p.m.
giacomo boffi <giacomo.boffi(a)polimi.it> writes:
maybe C-z's behaviour should be controlled by some custom
variable,
settable within the Options menu hierarchy
I don't see a need for a variable when it can be customized with
`global-set-key'. The relevant question is: what should C-z do by
default?
4:38 a.m.
>> "RT" == Raymond Toy <toy(a)rtp.ericsson.se>
writes:
[...]
RT> Let me cast my vote for leaving it as it is. :-)
RT> I also find it *way* annoying when I accidentally hit C-z instead of
RT> C-x and my emacs window is gone and I'm now typing into something
RT> else.
Well, I wouldnt have minded as much if the mapping was simply
undef-ed. But changing it drastically is something I didnt expect.
Imagine how much more annoying C-z is now for YOU yourself, when you
accidentally type 'C-z v v' instead of 'C-x v v'. Instead of just
iconifying and making you *think* it crashed, it actually deleted
everything upto the next 'v'. And zap-up-to-char doesnt wait for RET
either. It just does it.
And its not like C-z mapping changed in the same major release, ie
from 21.5.x to 21.5.y. We have had the same mapping for years now.
Changing something like this, in general, is not good.
RT> For casual users, I would think this is confusing too. Hey! Where
RT> did emacs go? It must have crashed again, damnit!
RT>:-)
RT> Ray
kaarthik
8:16 p.m.
>>>> "Kaarthik" == Kaarthik Sivakumar
<kaarthik(a)comcast.net> writes:
>>> "RT" == Raymond Toy <toy(a)rtp.ericsson.se>
writes:
Kaarthik> [...]
RT> Let me cast my vote for leaving it as it is. :-)
RT> I also find it *way* annoying when I accidentally hit C-z instead of
RT> C-x and my emacs window is gone and I'm now typing into something
RT> else.
Kaarthik> Well, I wouldnt have minded as much if the mapping was simply
Kaarthik> undef-ed. But changing it drastically is something I didnt expect.
Kaarthik> Imagine how much more annoying C-z is now for YOU yourself, when you
Kaarthik> accidentally type 'C-z v v' instead of 'C-x v v'. Instead
of just
Kaarthik> iconifying and making you *think* it crashed, it actually deleted
Kaarthik> everything upto the next 'v'. And zap-up-to-char doesnt wait for
RET
Kaarthik> either. It just does it.
Undo is your friend.
But C-z has been zap for quite a long time, hasn't it? (Or maybe I
changed it for myself long ago, but I very rarely modify predefined
keys because when I use someone else's xemacs, I'm really screwed.)
Ray
10:49 p.m.
* Raymond Toy <toy(a)rtp.ericsson.se> writes:
But C-z has been zap for quite a long time, hasn't it?
Only in the last 12 months, or thereabouts.
--
|---<Steve Youngs>---------------<GnuPG KeyID: A94B3003>---|
| XEmacs - The only _______ you'll ever need. |
| Fill in the blank, yes, it's THAT good! |
|------------------------------<sryoungs(a)bigpond.net.au>---|
3:51 p.m.
* Kaarthik Sivakumar <kaarthik(a)comcast.net> writes:
The change of mapping of C-z from suspend-or-iconify-emacs to
zap-up-to-char, in XEmacs 21.5.16 in my opinion, is a nasty
surprise.
I agree. And I was against the change when Ben Wing suggested it. I
am about to submit a patch that will undo this idiocy. Until that
patch goes in (or in case it is rejected) this should help you...
(substitute-key-definition
'zap-up-to-char 'suspend-emacs-or-iconify-frame global-map)
BTW, I think `suspend-emacs-or-iconify-frame' makes more sense than
`suspend-or-iconify-emacs', but if you'd rather the latter use that
instead.
HTH
--
|---<Steve Youngs>---------------<GnuPG KeyID: A94B3003>---|
| XEmacs - The only _______ you'll ever need. |
| Fill in the blank, yes, it's THAT good! |
|------------------------------<sryoungs(a)bigpond.net.au>---|
4:40 a.m.
>> "SY" == Steve Youngs
<sryoungs(a)bigpond.net.au> writes:
[...]
SY> BTW, I think `suspend-emacs-or-iconify-frame' makes more sense
SY> than `suspend-or-iconify-emacs', but if you'd rather the latter
SY> use that instead.
Thats what I meant, but not what I typed. Thanks for the patch.
kaarthik
7607
days inactive
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13 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
Alexey Mahotkin -
Giacomo Boffi -
Hrvoje Niksic -
Kaarthik Sivakumar -
Raymond Toy -
Reiner Steib -
Steve Youngs -
Vin Shelton