-BP> Neither of these should ever happen with proper property -BP> merging. The default font would ALWAYS be fully specified. -BP> Either by the user or by a combination of the user and -BP> window-system-specific defaults. I don't understand. Of course the default font would always be exactly specified, and so would every font actually used to display text. My point is that our face model cannot possibly account for all font properties, e.g. those in use by future intergalactic alien allies, and therefore although the face system would resolve both under- and over-determined specs, the user might not like the outcome. (The main problem is that the maintainer of the font handler in question might not be able or willing to change the abstract face system, _especially if it involves an API or face model change_.) If so, the user could specify the font explicitly, but that's not very friendly or general. We should provide direct access via Lisp to underlying font models, however ugly, and not force the user to fully specify the font. Surely _Custom_ should avoid using those whenever possible, and maybe even override or redirect user attempts to use font properties when a corresponding face property is available. At the moment, Custom doesn't even understand non-Latin fonts AFAICT (although it now leaves them alone, a VAST improvement over the days when it simply nuked them). I use Custom for faces only because it's my responsibility as a beta tester, not because it's useful. And even so every time I touch Options | Size or Options | Font, I am _forced_ to spend time in *scratch* setting my non-iso8859-1 fonts. Until that kind of thing gets resolved, it is premature to think we can properly _test_, let alone _define_, a "font model" of universal applicability. Eg, what are the relevant properties for Arabic fonts? Devanagari? Korean Hangul? AFAIK digital fontography in those cultures is not at all developed; we're going to be hearing from them for years, maybe decades, to come. I'm all for defining a better face model, and nobody in their right mind should tell you you have to handle Asian fonts before implementing it. But please leave me access to a higher level interface than `Emacs*fontSet: $XLFD_SPEC' for my Japanese fonts. Eg, an 'x-font-property-hints-list property on the face. -- University of Tsukuba Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences Tel/fax: +81 (298) 53-5091 _________________ _________________ _________________ _________________ What are those straight lines for? "XEmacs rules."