On Thu, 16 Dec 1999, Martin Buchholz <martin(a)xemacs.org&gt; wrote: widget with the flat Athena headers, then running against a 3d Athena will cause you pain. *grin* The next patch went through today[2]. It will refuse point blank to build with mismatched Athena headers and widgets. It also prefers to use something it *knows*[3] is right -- the headers is `neXtaw/' for the neXtaw library and so on. It's pretty robust against slight mismatches. Well, I currently have the gutter turned off because it killed my machine. Then I tried using W3 and the progress stuff killed me. Hmmm. Heres a test for it. I just built with matching headers and shared libs; lets try that some test again... /time passes/ Well. Still here. The new progress bars look positively awful with the neXtaw library, or possibly just at all. They didn't cope well at all with this XEmacs of mine. Still, no crash. Personally, I am now convinced that at least some of the lossage with the new widgets is Athena foolishness related. Daniel Footnotes: [1] I have seen things crash, put flat Xaw back and had them work, but only because other people said this would work (and it did :) [2] MsgId <87ln6vgr03.fsf(a)inanna.danann.net&gt; in xemacs-patches [3] Where /knows/ is defined as `if the user isn't deliberately trying to make me suffer' -- you can probably fool the detection, but not without actually trying. -- The best work of artists in any age is the work of innocence liberated by technical knowledge. -- Nancy Hale