[Various] Is `ilisp' DFSG free?

[ CC'd to xemacs-beta since `ilisp' is in the xemacs-packages CVS also.] What's the status of GPLing `ilisp', as mentioned in the version 5.10.1 COPYING file? ------- Start of forwarded message ------- Date: Fri May 12 23:33:10 2000 From: Various Subject: Is `ilisp' DFSG free? Topics: Is `ilisp' DFSG free? Re: Is `ilisp' DFSG free? Re: Is `ilisp' DFSG free? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 11 May 2000 14:52:32 -0700 From: karlheg(a)debian.org (Karl M. Hegbloom) To: The Debian Legal Eagles <debian-legal(a)lists.debian.org&gt; Subject: Is `ilisp' DFSG free? Message-ID: <87vh0keov3.fsf(a)bittersweet.intra&gt; Please advise. I am not subscribed, so Cc. Is this licence (from ilisp 5.10.1) DFSG free? COPYING -- TERMS AND LICENSING AGREEMENT FOR ILISP - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This file is part of ILISP. Version: 5.10.1 Date: 15 June 1999 Copyright (C) 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993 Chris McConnell 1993, 1994 Ivan Vasquez 1994, 1995, 1996 Marco Antoniotti and Rick Busdiecker 1996-2000 Marco Antoniotti and Rick Campbell Other authors' names for which this Copyright notice also holds may appear later in this file. Send mail to &#39;majordomo(a)cons.org&#39; to be included in the ILISP mailing list (a message with 'subscribe ilisp' in the body should suffice). &#39;ilisp(a)cons.org&#39; is the general ILISP mailing list were bugs and improvements are discussed. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ILISP if freely redistributable. Eventually it may become part of GNU Emacs and it will in that case comply with the GPL. For the time being we adopt the following licensing agreement. Such licensing agreement may be overridden by the licensing notice contained in an individual file and for that file only. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ GENERAL LICENSE AGREEMENT AND LACK OF WARRANTY This software is distributed in the hope that it will be useful (both in and of itself and as an example of lisp programming), but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY. The author(s) do not accept responsibility to anyone for the consequences of using it or for whether it serves any particular purpose or works at all. No warranty is made about the software or its performance. Use and copying of this software and the preparation of derivative works based on this software are permitted, so long as the following conditions are met: o The copyright notice and this entire notice are included intact and prominently carried on all copies and supporting documentation. o No fees or compensation are charged for use, copies, or access to this software. You may charge a nominal distribution fee for the physical act of transferring a copy, but you may not charge for the program itself. o If you modify this software, you must cause the modified file(s) to carry prominent notices (a Change Log) describing the changes, who made the changes, and the date of those changes. o Any work distributed or published that in whole or in part contains or is a derivative of this software or any part thereof is subject to the terms of this agreement. The aggregation of another unrelated program with this software or its derivative on a volume of storage or distribution medium does not bring the other program under the scope of these terms. o Permission is granted to manufacturers and distributors of lisp compilers and interpreters to include this software with their distribution. This software is made available AS IS, and is distributed without warranty of any kind, either expressed or implied. In no event will the author(s) or their institutions be liable to you for damages, including lost profits, lost monies, or other special, incidental or consequential damages arising out of or in connection with the use or inability to use (including but not limited to loss of data or data being rendered inaccurate or losses sustained by third parties or a failure of the program to operate as documented) the program, even if you have been advised of the possibility of such damanges, or for any claim by any other party, whether in an action of contract, negligence, or other tortious action. January 4th, 1995 # end of file -- COPYING -- - - I am karlheg of deB-ORG. You will be freed. mailto:karlheg＠debian.org (Karl M. Hegbloom) Portland, OR USA Debian GNU Potato Linux 2.2 AMD K6-200(＠233) XEmacs-21.2beta ------------------------------ Date: 12 May 2000 17:11:09 +0200 From: Henning Makholm <henning(a)makholm.net&gt; To: karlheg(a)debian.org (Karl M. Hegbloom), debian-legal(a)lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Is `ilisp' DFSG free? Message-ID: <yahitwjn6r6.fsf(a)freja.diku.dk&gt; References: <200005121411.KAA10376(a)mixing.qc.dfo.ca&gt; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Scripsit Peter S Galbraith <GalbraithP(a)dfo-mpo.gc.ca&gt; "Copying" is the only thing you need permission for. Copyright does not imply that the author can prevent people from giving or selling legal copies to each other. It seems to be a permission to redistribute the software under the license terms of the Lisp interpretation (which may bee less free than the license itself). - - Henning Makholm "Han råber og skriger, vakler ud på kørebanen og ind på fortorvet igen, hæver knytnæven mod en bil, hilser overmådigt venligt på en mor med barn, bryder ud i sang og stiller sig til sidst op og pisser i en port." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 10:11:22 -0400 From: Peter S Galbraith <GalbraithP(a)dfo-mpo.gc.ca&gt; To: karlheg(a)debian.org (Karl M. Hegbloom) Cc: debian-legal(a)lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Is `ilisp' DFSG free? Message-Id: <200005121411.KAA10376(a)mixing.qc.dfo.ca&gt; [cut] [cut] They say above `freely redistributable' but then say `we adopt the following licensing agreement', so that sentence becomes somewhat irrelevant (they don't talk much about redistribution in the license itself). [cut `no-warranty' text] `copying' doesn't mean `redistribution', does it? [cut] This is not strictly DFSG-compliant. The Artistic license gets away with by stating that the clause is not enforced by the copyright holder. Is the above permission to re-distribute? Why is the above specified if everyone is allowed to redistribute it? If only `manufacturers and distributors of lisp compilers and interpreters' are allowed to redistribute it, then it discriminates and is non-free. I find it unclear, and if it were me packaging it, it'd go in non-free. The no-sell clause is enough to put it into non-free, and the unclear permission on who is allowed to redistribute it might mean we're not allowed to include it even in non-free (surely not their intent, but perhaps the letter of their license). IANAL, my two-cents only, grain of salt, etc. - - Peter Galbraith, research scientist <GalbraithP(a)dfo-mpo.gc.ca&gt; Maurice Lamontagne Institute, Department of Fisheries and Oceans Canada P.O. Box 1000, Mont-Joli Qc, G5H 3Z4 Canada. 418-775-0852 FAX: 775-0546 6623'rd GNU/Linux user at the Counter - http://counter.li.org/ ------------------------------ End of forwardMwEQjU Digest *************************** ------- End of forwarded message -------