Usability issues (was: horribly long Subject ;D)
[ Apologies if this email is fubar. I'm struggling to make ]
[ MS Outlook act like a decent email client. So far my ]
[ success has been limited. :-( ]
Jan Vroonhof <vroonhof(a)math.ethz.ch> wrote:
Hans Reiser <reiser(a)idiom.com> wrote:
>If you guys could put the contents of Jan's simple instructions
>in the README, boy, it would be nice....
As I wrote. I don't know why Didier's announcement is not on the
ftp site. Combined with an undermaintained Web site (I am not sure
what is the problem there, but I presume also time constraints)
we have a serious Problem.
Yes! I'd rate myself somewhere in the neighbourhood of a "power user"[0]
and
it took me ages to find /anything/ on xemacs.org. In the lull after 19.14
(IIRC) I was starting to think XEmacs was dead since nothing seemed to be
happening on the web site. Not until I found XEmacs-beta did I figure out
that there was actually something going on.
>It is NOT obvious where sumo goes.
Even after reading README.packages (or the equivalent link on the web
site)? I wrote that README and I am afraid I cannot do better then
that. Please point out how it should be changed.
The same problem here as above; Y'all are thinking on the wrong level!
To follow the evolution of XEmacs, I need an updated web site which lists
current version -- including minor revisions and user level change log --
and current "Beta"[1] version with similar information. There should also be
information regarding what is being worked on and what is planned for future
releases.
The packaging needs to be extremely simple -- rpms, IRIX inst'able or
Windoze InstallShield/Point&Drool, or a single tar that gets you everything
you need to get started; _including_ efs and whatever else I need to get the
package system running. Figuring out what is optional and what is required
and which archive gets untared where is sub-optimal to the point of being
obtuse.
If you want to fiddle with this, chances are you are actively developing for
XEmacs and should be getting this stuff from cvs. Otherwise you just want to
use the (arguably) best editor/ide/whatever without having to figure out
implementation details to do it.
I love XEmacs, but I'll never write a line of LISP if I can avoid it. XEmacs
is a monolitic application -- and packages amount to "plugins" -- from my
POV. I'd like to be able to treat XEmacs as a "Black Box", but I keep
getting reminded that there is a whole lot of plumbing underneat and this is
especially true during installation.
My suggestions for remeding these problems:
* Get some poor schmuck to take over what work the
current "webmaster" on www.xemacs.org doesn't have
time for[2]. You don't have to tie up developer's
time for this; any XEmacs user should be able to
manage the brunt of the work.
* Figure out why it takes so long to make binaries
and "installers" (InstallShield, rpms, etc.) and
fix it. Recruit new builders; fix the problems that
makes them spend so much time getting stuff out the
door.
* Start with a "clean" machine (e.g. a fresh Red Hat
6.0 install), open a web browser to www.xemacs.org
and proceede to install the most recent XEmacs.
Write down the steps (i.e. click link; read page;
click link; download tar file one; download tar file
two; etc.) until you can start working
with XEmacs (e.g. check out your current Perl
project from the cvs repository and start writing).
Now, figure out what can be done to cut down on the
number of steps. Can you get it below five? :-)
HTH, TTFN. -link
[0] - As in "He does some admining and simple Perl
programs, but for gods sakes do not let him
near anything complicated!" :-)
[1] - For an arbitrarily wide definition of "beta".
[2] - No, I'm _not_ volunteering! :-|