12:35 p.m.
I understand the need for updated packages that help people work in
different ways.
There are also things within XEmacs that need updating. I have 2 things
that poke at me when I am working within XEmacs.
First is that some features are in the documentation, but do not
actually exist when you go to program them.
An example is in dialogs, that only 1 of 4 types of dialog boxes that
are in the documentation actually exist in code.
You can call the function name from your lisp code, and it says "not
implemented".
There are other examples of this too.
Second is that features that exist in the manuals and exist in the
program, but you cannot use them in code and submit it for inclusion in
XEmacs because that feature doesn't exist in the previous stable version
(21.4) (and never will).
An example is when I tried to implement a behavior, which is in the
manual, and the code is there--it works. But is not compatible with a
10 year old previous version.
There are other places where behaviors can be implemented to good
effect, in the menu system, that would solve some usability problems
that some users report, but they cannot be used at this time. An
example: it is a way to implement (and turn off) CUA provisions (a "new"
menu item, and similarly a "close" menu item for example), while keeping
the entire rest of the menu intact, so anyone who wants the CUA items
can turn on a behavior, and the rest can leave it off, and no harm done.
The real problem is no body or no thing, except the distribution cycle
has stretched to over 10 years old now, and it forces everybody to write
code (to be submitted to XEmacs) that doesn't use the new features of
21.5. If I recall correctly, behaviors existed 10 years ago, but still
cannot be used.
What obstacles are in the way of incrementing the version number of a
stable release so we can use new features?
Steve Mitchell
Forgive me if I have some terminology of version numbers or the number
of years wrong here, I think it has actually been 11 years since
behaviors were implemented, going by the date on the file.
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3:52 p.m.
New subject: The future of XEmacs
steven Mitchell writes:
First is that some features are in the documentation, but do not
actually exist when you go to program them.
AFAIK they do, but only on some platforms (probably only on Windows,
although some might exist on Motif.
I suppose it should be documented, but I don't consider it a problem
that some features work on only certain platforms. Bug reports would
help.
Second is that features that exist in the manuals and exist in the
program, but you cannot use them in code and submit it for
inclusion in XEmacs because that feature doesn't exist in the
previous stable version (21.4) (and never will).
That's not the rule. We will veto patches that break a package that
currently works with 21.4, but there's nothing wrong with using a
feature that exists in some versions but not others as long as it is
properly protected by feature test (just as you can use a feature that
exists in an XEmacs that is configured --with-x11=yes but not one
configured --with-x11=no). Alternatively you could use a version test
but that's to be avoided where a feature test is available.
An example is when I tried to implement a behavior, which is in the
manual, and the code is there--it works. But is not compatible with a
10 year old previous version.
Did you submit the code and have it vetoed for that reason? I don't
recall it.
What obstacles are in the way of incrementing the version number of a
stable release so we can use new features?
Well, as I said above, version number is not a blocker, you just can't
substitute code that depends on features not in XEmacs 21.4 for
working code.
As far as the bump goes specifically, XEmacs 21.5 is still really
rough-edged in many ways. At a minimum the coding systems need to be
fixed so that it's impossible to save a buffer with unencodable
characters in it. I'd really like to fix the damn progress bar crash.
I don't think there's much point in bumping the version number until
we've got font-lock compatible with recent GNU APIs (ie, jit-lock).
Coding system defaults are still not robust (although Aidan has banged
them into pretty good shape, there are still some issues).
Coding detection is not yet as accurate as it was before Ben reworked
it, and Unicode as the internal encoding would be nice. I personally
think that reasonable font support is a blocker (Xft or Pango), but I
wouldn't try to veto a version bump if others disagree with that opinion.
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7:38 p.m.
New subject: The future of XEmacs
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
I'd really like to fix the damn progress bar crash.
Is this crash only seen in 21.5? If it's also present in 21.4, I
wouldn't make it a blocker for 21.6.
I don't think there's much point in bumping the version
number until
we've got font-lock compatible with recent GNU APIs (ie, jit-lock).
Coding system defaults are still not robust (although Aidan has banged
them into pretty good shape, there are still some issues).
Coding detection is not yet as accurate as it was before Ben reworked
it, and Unicode as the internal encoding would be nice. I personally
think that reasonable font support is a blocker (Xft or Pango), but I
wouldn't try to veto a version bump if others disagree with that opinion.
The main reason I started using 21.5 was that I was getting more email
that required decent UTF-8 support. It works well enough for my
purposes, but I concede that my purposes are pretty limited compared to
those of some other users.
If the current 21.5 is more likely than 21.4 to corrupt user files, then
I agree that's a blocker. On the other hand, if the problem is just
that the current 21.5 isn't as complete as we'd like it, I suspect we'd
be better served by cutting a new stable branch with what we've got.
mike
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10:15 p.m.
New subject: The future of XEmacs
>>>> Mike Kupfer <mike.kupfer(a)xemacs.org> writes:
If the current 21.5 is more likely than 21.4 to corrupt user files
[...]
Is it this issue?
http://tracker.xemacs.org/XEmacs/its/issue780
Yours
--
%% Mats
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5:47 a.m.
New subject: The future of XEmacs
Mike Kupfer writes:
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> I'd really like to fix the damn progress bar crash.
Is this crash only seen in 21.5? If it's also present in 21.4, I
wouldn't make it a blocker for 21.6.
If we don't fix it, I'm going to remove it. It's getting reported
more frequently, although I'm not sure why. Maybe due to the increase
in ASLR systems, but who really knows.... Anyway, it's a bad thing.
The main reason I started using 21.5 was that I was getting more
email
that required decent UTF-8 support. It works well enough for my
purposes, but I concede that my purposes are pretty limited compared to
those of some other users.
If the current 21.5 is more likely than 21.4 to corrupt user files, then
I agree that's a blocker.
I think it is. The underlying problem, that the coding system code
will happily substitute a character (usually "~") for characters it
doesn't know how to encode, is common to 21.4 and 21.5. But 21.4 is
more accurate at detecting encodings, so this is less of a problem.
On the other hand, if the problem is just that the current 21.5
isn't as complete as we'd like it, I suspect we'd be better served
by cutting a new stable branch with what we've got.
Well, people who are already using 21.5 will be better served. But
people who are still using 21.4 and change to 21.5 experience a lot of
small regressions. Releasing 21.6 straight from the trunk as is will
make developers a little bit happier (but not much, there really is
very little restriction on what you can put into core or packages
based on 21.4 compatibility). It won't really change anything for
people already using 21.5, and I think it will make a lot of people who
switch from 21.4 to the new stable branch mildly unhappy.
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9:40 a.m.
New subject: The future of XEmacs
On 2012-07-31, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen(a)xemacs.org> wrote:
I think it is. The underlying problem, that the coding system code
will happily substitute a character (usually "~") for characters it
doesn't know how to encode, is common to 21.4 and 21.5. But 21.4 is
more accurate at detecting encodings, so this is less of a problem.
The worst aspect is that it does it silently. Once I modified my own
branch of 21.4 to throw up warnings whenever there's a coding error,
life became much better - and I also found many many coding-system
related bugs in VM !
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12:07 p.m.
New subject: The future of XEmacs
Julian Bradfield writes:
The worst aspect is that it does it silently. Once I modified my own
branch of 21.4 to throw up warnings whenever there's a coding
error,
Would you post that code?
life became much better - and I also found many many coding-system
related bugs in VM !
Tell me about it. :-(
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12:48 p.m.
New subject: The future of XEmacs
On 2012-07-31, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen(a)xemacs.org> wrote:
Julian Bradfield writes:
> The worst aspect is that it does it silently. Once I modified my own
> branch of 21.4 to throw up warnings whenever there's a coding
> error,
Would you post that code?
Can't really just post a diff, because I've done so much other mucking
around. However, what I've done is this:
For decoding:
added
int num_decoding_errors;
to struct decoding_stream
modified all the decoding functions (except CCL, where of course
there's nothing I can do) to increment that whenever they meet an
invalid byte, and then in decoding_closer I replace the final
return Lstream_close (str->other_end);
by
int r = Lstream_close (str->other_end);
if ( str->num_decoding_errors ) {
warn_when_safe_lispobj(Qstream,Qwarning,
emacs_doprnt_string_lisp_2(
"%d invalid bytes were encountered while reading from file %s in coding system
%s\nThis probably means the file is in a different coding system.\nYour data will be
corrupted if you save this data.",
Qnil,-1,3,make_int(str->num_decoding_errors),fname,CODING_SYSTEM_NAME(str->codesys)));
}
return r;
For encoding, it's much the same, except that I also store the last
unencoded character, and print that in the error message:
if ( str->num_unencodable ) {
warn_when_safe_lispobj(Qstream,Qwarning,
emacs_doprnt_string_lisp_2(
"%d characters could not be encoded while writing to file %s in coding system
%s.\nThe last unencodable character was %s \nThis means your data has not been correctly
written. Try a universal coding system (utf-8 or iso-2022-7).",
Qnil,-1,4,make_int(str->num_unencodable),fname,CODING_SYSTEM_NAME(str->codesys),make_char(str->last_unencodable)));
}
This all fairly painful to encounter, but that's part of the point: it
should be painful enough to make me find and fix the coding system
errors!
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3:26 p.m.
New subject: The future of XEmacs
Julian Bradfield writes:
Thanks for the explanation!
This all fairly painful to encounter, but that's part of the
point: it
should be painful enough to make me find and fix the coding system
errors!
Yes, I guess it would be painful.
For a public release, I think we should actually error and prevent the
save. Reading in incorrectly is no big deal interactively, of course,
but I think we should try to do more than give a warning for that for
non-interactive cases.
Steve
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4:08 p.m.
New subject: The future of XEmacs
On 2012-07-31, Stephen J. Turnbull <turnbull(a)sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> wrote:
For a public release, I think we should actually error and prevent
the
save.
I think you should be a bit careful about that, unless it's clear to
the average user how to override it.
For example, the only remaining issue I'm aware of in VM coding
systems is that it still doesn't always correctly handle multilingual
email headers. Currently, this is fairly harmless, because the headers
are actually mime-encoded; however VM tries to cache header data in
its own data header. If this contains non-Latin-1 characters, you get
a coding error on save. Doesn't matter too much, because it's only a
cache, and the worst that happens is you see ~ in the summary.
It matters much less than being a user who happens to get some
multilingual mail for once, and is then unable to save their mailfile!
(This will be fixed in VM, of course, but I haven't got round to
catching up with Uday's workning version - it may even be fixed there
already.)
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6:21 a.m.
New subject: The future of XEmacs
Julian Bradfield writes:
I think you should be a bit careful about that, unless it's clear
to
the average user how to override it.
Not really my problem. It's *always* possible to do "C-x b INBOX RET
C-x h C-u C-x C-w utf-8 RET INBOX.save RET". I'll put that in the
FAQ, but I don't think I need to do more than that.
It matters much less than being a user who happens to get some
multilingual mail for once, and is then unable to save their mailfile!
I've personally lost literally megabytes of data to VM coding system
bugs. Stuff happens to testers and developers, I'm not complaining.
I do *not* want that to happen to users of a stable version. Ever.
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2:38 p.m.
New subject: The future of XEmacs
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
people who are still using 21.4 and change to 21.5 experience a lot
of
small regressions.
Are these regressions related to multilingual support? The only
regression I notice is the occasional rendering glitch with Xft, but I
wouldn't propose enabling Xft by default. Oh, and there's a lot more
noise at startup about package shadows. But it could be that I've been
using 21.5 long enough that I've stopped seeing some of the smaller
issues.
That said, I agree that we should try hard to fix regressions from 21.4
before releasing 21.6. It'd be helpful to have a list of specific
regressions somewhere, or a recipe for finding regressions in the
tracker.
mike
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4:02 p.m.
New subject: The future of XEmacs
Mike Kupfer writes:
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> people who are still using 21.4 and change to 21.5 experience a lot of
> small regressions.
Are these regressions related to multilingual support?
Some are, most are not. The ones that bite me most frequently are the
coding system defaults issue and some issues with window configurations
(Mike says they're due to programs depending on undefined or wrong
behavior, but users will perceive them as regressions), including
cursor vs current message desynchronization in VM and a redisplay bug
such that resizing the initial frame bigger in the init file leaves it
half-blank.
There are a bunch of others that might or might not be regressions, I
don't use 21.4 enough to remember its behavior. Specifically the
annoying "wrong type error: stringp, nil" that pops up all over the
place, and the startup noise about loading the "Guide".
The only regression I notice is the occasional rendering glitch
with Xft, but I wouldn't propose enabling Xft by default.
It's really not acceptable to not have antialiased fonts for Unicode
support anymore, at least not for Asian fonts character sets. I guess
it's OK for those who only occasionally see Asian characters, but I
can't use a non-Xft XEmacs anymore; it's just too painful.
Oh, and there's a lot more noise at startup about package
shadows.
Noise about shadows is a user issue. There shouldn't be any shadows
in a normal user's configuration. Only developers should have shadows
(and maybe the occasional shadow due to mission critical packages
where user follows upstream).
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4:14 p.m.
New subject: The future of XEmacs
On 2012-07-31, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen(a)xemacs.org> wrote:
behavior, but users will perceive them as regressions), including
cursor vs current message desynchronization in VM and a redisplay bug
If you're using recent VMs, that's an VM problem that affects
everybody, not necessary XEmacs.
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3:47 a.m.
New subject: The future of XEmacs
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
Mike Kupfer writes:
> Oh, and there's a lot more noise at startup about package shadows.
Noise about shadows is a user issue. There shouldn't be any shadows
in a normal user's configuration. Only developers should have shadows
(and maybe the occasional shadow due to mission critical packages
where user follows upstream).
I'm not convinced of that. It's reasonable for a user's computer to
have the latest sumo installed--I believe that's how most of the distros
provide XEmacs. But ISTR that promotion of packages to stable does not
always imply the release of a new sumo. (Or maybe the user is running a
"stable" OS release that has an old sumo.) And adventurous users could
be running pre-release packages. So it's pretty easy to end up with
shadows: one copy from the sumo, typically in /usr somewhere, and
another copy installed by PUI under $HOME/.xemacs. That's how I get
most of my shadows. (I currently get warnings about 17 shadows. 14
were downloaded from xemacs.org, 3 were ones that I built.)
FWIW, the additional noise in 21.5 is from the addition of a Lisp stack
trace for each shadow warning. Is that an explicit change, or is that
just a result of running with additional debugging flags set (because
21.5 is a beta)? The stack doesn't seem to add much value in this
situation (IMHO).
mike
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7:46 a.m.
New subject: The future of XEmacs
Mike Kupfer writes:
So it's pretty easy to end up with shadows: one copy from the
sumo,
typically in /usr somewhere, and another copy installed by PUI
under $HOME/.xemacs.
OK, I stand corrected.
FWIW, the additional noise in 21.5 is from the addition of a Lisp
stack
trace for each shadow warning.
Never seen one of those. I can't imagine it was deliberate if it's
due to an XEmacs change. What does the stack trace say?
Steve
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3:18 a.m.
New subject: The future of XEmacs
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
Mike Kupfer writes:
> FWIW, the additional noise in 21.5 is from the addition of a
Lisp stack
> trace for each shadow warning.
Never seen one of those. I can't imagine it was deliberate if it's
due to an XEmacs change. What does the stack trace say?
Here's a sample message for a single package, copied out of *Warnings* :
(1) (packages/warning) Error in Autoload
/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xemacs-devel/auto-autoloads: Already loaded
Backtrace follows:
backtrace(nil t)
# bind (standard-output standard-output handler-arg-name)
backtrace-in-condition-handler-eliminating-handler(#:call-trapping-errors-Ldc9FC5Hr)
# bind (errstr #:call-trapping-errors-Ldc9FC5Hr)
#<compiled-function (from
"/home/kupfer/xemacs/ws/xemacs-beta.build/lisp/packages.elc")
(#:call-trapping-errors-Ldc9FC5Hr) "...(20)" [file-name
#:call-trapping-errors-Ldc9FC5Hr errstr error-message-string lwarn packages warning
"Error in %s: %s\n\nBacktrace follows:\n\n%s" format "Autoload %s"
backtrace-in-condition-handler-eliminating-handler] 8 0x19b>((error "Already
loaded"))
signal(error ("Already loaded"))
# bind (args datum)
cerror("Already loaded")
apply(cerror "Already loaded" nil)
# bind (args datum)
error("Already loaded")
byte-code("..." [featurep xemacs-devel-autoloads error "Already
loaded" package-provide xemacs-devel :version 1.8 :author-version
"No-Upstream-Ver" :type single-file] 8)
# (unwind-protect ...)
# (unwind-protect ...)
# (unwind-protect ...)
# (unwind-protect ...)
# (unwind-protect ...)
# (unwind-protect ...)
# (unwind-protect ...)
# (unwind-protect ...)
(load-internal "[internal]")
load-internal("/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xemacs-devel/auto-autoloads"
t t nil binary)
# bind (handler path nosuffix nomessage noerror filename)
load("/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xemacs-devel/auto-autoloads"
t t)
#<compiled-function (from
"/home/kupfer/xemacs/ws/xemacs-beta.build/lisp/packages.elc") nil
"...(6)" [file-name load t] 4 0x19c>()
# (unwind-protect ...)
call-with-condition-handler(#<compiled-function (from
"/home/kupfer/xemacs/ws/xemacs-beta.build/lisp/packages.elc")
(#:call-trapping-errors-Ldc9FC5Hr) "...(20)" [file-name
#:call-trapping-errors-Ldc9FC5Hr errstr error-message-string lwarn packages warning
"Error in %s: %s\n\nBacktrace follows:\n\n%s" format "Autoload %s"
backtrace-in-condition-handler-eliminating-handler] 8 0x19b> #<compiled-function
(from "/home/kupfer/xemacs/ws/xemacs-beta.build/lisp/packages.elc") nil
"...(6)" [file-name load t] 4 0x19c>)
# (condition-case ... . ((error)))
# bind (file-name dir)
#<compiled-function (from
"/home/kupfer/xemacs/ws/xemacs-beta.build/lisp/packages.elc") (dir)
"...(11)" [file-name dir base expand-file-name nil (call-with-condition-handler
#<compiled-function (from
"/home/kupfer/xemacs/ws/xemacs-beta.build/lisp/packages.elc")
(#:call-trapping-errors-Ldc9FC5Hr) "...(20)" [file-name
#:call-trapping-errors-Ldc9FC5Hr errstr error-message-string lwarn packages warning
"Error in %s: %s\n\nBacktrace follows:\n\n%s" format "Autoload %s"
backtrace-in-condition-handler-eliminating-handler] 8 0x19b> #<compiled-function
(from "/home/kupfer/xemacs/ws/xemacs-beta.build/lisp/packages.elc") nil
"...(6)" [file-name load t] 4 0x19c>) ((error))] 3
0x19d>("/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xemacs-devel/")
mapcar(#<compiled-function (from
"/home/kupfer/xemacs/ws/xemacs-beta.build/lisp/packages.elc") (dir)
"...(11)" [file-name dir base expand-file-name nil (call-with-condition-handler
#<compiled-function (from
"/home/kupfer/xemacs/ws/xemacs-beta.build/lisp/packages.elc")
(#:call-trapping-errors-Ldc9FC5Hr) "...(20)" [file-name
#:call-trapping-errors-Ldc9FC5Hr errstr error-message-string lwarn packages warning
"Error in %s: %s\n\nBacktrace follows:\n\n%s" format "Autoload %s"
backtrace-in-condition-handler-eliminating-handler] 8 0x19b> #<compiled-function
(from "/home/kupfer/xemacs/ws/xemacs-beta.build/lisp/packages.elc") nil
"...(6)" [file-name load t] 4 0x19c>) ((error))] 3 0x19d>
("/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/Sun/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ada/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/apel/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/auctex/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/bbdb/!
" "/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/build/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/c-support/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/calc/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/calendar/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/cc-mode/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/cedet-common/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/clearcase/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/cogre/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/cookie/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/crisp/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/debug/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/dictionary/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/dired/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/docbookide/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/easypg/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ecb/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ecrypto/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ede/" "/usr/new/share/xemac!
s/xemacs-packages/lisp/edebug/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ediff/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/edit-utils/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/edt/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/efs/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/eieio/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/elib/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/emerge/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/erc/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/escreen/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/eshell/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ess/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/eterm/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/eudc/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/footnote/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/forms/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/fortran-modes/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/frame-icon/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/fsf-compat/" !
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/games/" "/usr/new/share/xem!
acs/xemacs-packages/lisp/general-docs/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/gnats/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/gnus/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/guided-tour/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/haskell-mode/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/hm--html-menus/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/hyperbole/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ibuffer/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/idlwave/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/igrep/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ilisp/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ispell/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/jde/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/liece/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/mail-lib/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/mailcrypt/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/mew/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/mh-e/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-pa!
ckages/lisp/mine/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/misc-games/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/mmm-mode/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/net-utils/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ocaml/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/oo-browser/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/os-utils/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/pc/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/pcl-cvs/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/pcomplete/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/perl-modes/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/pgg/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/prog-modes/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ps-print/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/psgml/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/psgml-dtds/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/python-modes/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/re-builder/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-pack!
ages/lisp/reftex/" "/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/riece/" !
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/rmail/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ruby-modes/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/sasl/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/scheme/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/semantic/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/sgml/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/sh-script/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/sieve/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/slider/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/sml-mode/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/sounds-au/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/sounds-wav/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/speedbar/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/strokes/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/supercite/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/texinfo/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/text-modes/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/textools/" "/usr/new!
/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/time/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/tm/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/tooltalk/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/tpu/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/tramp/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/vc/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/vc-cc/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/vhdl/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/view-process/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/viper/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/vm/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/w3/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/x-symbol/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xemacs-base/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xemacs-devel/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xetla/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xlib/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xslide/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xslt-pr!
ocess/" "/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xwem/"
"/usr/new/sh!
are/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/zenirc/"))
# bind (base package-load-path)
packages-load-package-lisps(("/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/Sun/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ada/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/apel/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/auctex/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/bbdb/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/build/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/c-support/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/calc/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/calendar/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/cc-mode/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/cedet-common/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/clearcase/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/cogre/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/cookie/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/crisp/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/debug/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/dictionary/" "/usr/ne!
w/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/dired/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/docbookide/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/easypg/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ecb/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ecrypto/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ede/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/edebug/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ediff/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/edit-utils/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/edt/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/efs/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/eieio/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/elib/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/emerge/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/erc/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/escreen/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/eshell/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ess/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/eterm/" "/u!
sr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/eudc/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/footnote/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/forms/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/fortran-modes/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/frame-icon/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/fsf-compat/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/games/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/general-docs/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/gnats/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/gnus/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/guided-tour/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/haskell-mode/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/hm--html-menus/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/hyperbole/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ibuffer/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/idlwave/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/igrep/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ilisp/"!
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ispell/" "/usr/new/share/x!
emacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/jde/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/liece/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/mail-lib/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/mailcrypt/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/mew/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/mh-e/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/mine/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/misc-games/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/mmm-mode/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/net-utils/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ocaml/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/oo-browser/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/os-utils/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/pc/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/pcl-cvs/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/pcomplete/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/perl-modes/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/pgg/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lis!
p/prog-modes/" "/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ps-print/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/psgml/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/psgml-dtds/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/python-modes/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/re-builder/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/reftex/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/riece/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/rmail/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ruby-modes/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/sasl/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/scheme/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/semantic/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/sgml/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/sh-script/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/sieve/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/slider/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/sml-mode/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/sounds-au!
/" "/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/sounds-wav/"
"/usr/new/s!
hare/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/speedbar/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/strokes/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/supercite/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/texinfo/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/text-modes/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/textools/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/time/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/tm/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/tooltalk/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/tpu/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/tramp/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/vc/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/vc-cc/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/vhdl/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/view-process/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/viper/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/vm/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/w3/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/x-symb!
ol/" "/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xemacs-base/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xemacs-devel/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xetla/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xlib/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xslide/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xslt-process/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xwem/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/zenirc/")
"auto-autoloads")
# bind (package-load-path)
packages-load-package-auto-autoloads(("/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/Sun/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ada/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/apel/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/auctex/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/bbdb/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/build/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/c-support/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/calc/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/calendar/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/cc-mode/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/cedet-common/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/clearcase/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/cogre/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/cookie/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/crisp/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/debug/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/dictionary/"!
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/dired/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/docbookide/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/easypg/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ecb/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ecrypto/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ede/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/edebug/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ediff/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/edit-utils/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/edt/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/efs/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/eieio/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/elib/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/emerge/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/erc/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/escreen/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/eshell/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ess/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/et!
erm/" "/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/eudc/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/footnote/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/forms/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/fortran-modes/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/frame-icon/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/fsf-compat/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/games/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/general-docs/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/gnats/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/gnus/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/guided-tour/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/haskell-mode/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/hm--html-menus/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/hyperbole/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ibuffer/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/idlwave/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/igrep/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lis!
p/ilisp/" "/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ispell/"
"/usr/ne!
w/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/jde/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/liece/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/mail-lib/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/mailcrypt/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/mew/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/mh-e/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/mine/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/misc-games/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/mmm-mode/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/net-utils/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ocaml/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/oo-browser/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/os-utils/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/pc/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/pcl-cvs/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/pcomplete/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/perl-modes/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/pgg/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-pac!
kages/lisp/prog-modes/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ps-print/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/psgml/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/psgml-dtds/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/python-modes/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/re-builder/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/reftex/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/riece/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/rmail/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ruby-modes/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/sasl/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/scheme/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/semantic/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/sgml/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/sh-script/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/sieve/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/slider/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/sml-mode/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/!
sounds-au/" "/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/sounds-wav/"
"/!
usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/speedbar/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/strokes/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/supercite/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/texinfo/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/text-modes/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/textools/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/time/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/tm/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/tooltalk/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/tpu/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/tramp/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/vc/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/vc-cc/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/vhdl/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/view-process/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/viper/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/vm/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/w3/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/li!
sp/x-symbol/" "/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xemacs-base/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xemacs-devel/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xetla/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xlib/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xslide/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xslt-process/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xwem/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/zenirc/"))
startup-load-autoloads()
normal-top-level()
# (condition-case ... . error)
# (catch top-level ...)
mike
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7:20 a.m.
New subject: The future of XEmacs
Mike Kupfer writes:
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Mike Kupfer writes:
> > FWIW, the additional noise in 21.5 is from the addition of a Lisp stack
> > trace for each shadow warning.
>
> Never seen one of those. I can't imagine it was deliberate if it's
> due to an XEmacs change. What does the stack trace say?
Here's a sample message for a single package, copied out of *Warnings* :
(1) (packages/warning) Error in Autoload
/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xemacs-devel/auto-autoloads: Already loaded
That's not a "shadow" warning, that's a real error. XEmacs attempted
to load an auto-autoloads library for that package twice. If that
succeeded it would be a very bad thing, because it might stomp all
over changes made to the data of that package (including code, such as
advice) in the time since the first load. On the other hand, it
shouldn't happen without your intervention, because the package
initialization code should refuse to add a shadowed directory to
`load-path'. So the auto-autoloads library itself has to error,
because we can't be sure what you had in mind. (N.B. It is not an
error to explicitly reload a regular library.)
Bottom line, this isn't just an annoyance, something needs to be
fixed. I suspect your installation ;-), but it could be XEmacs.
Do you manipulate load-path in site-start, defaults.el, init.el,
custom.el, or any library loaded from one of those?
Do you manipulate load-path in any private package's auto-autoloads?
Does this happen with -vanilla?
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5:36 p.m.
New subject: The future of XEmacs
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
That's not a "shadow" warning, that's a real error.
Ah, okay.
Do you manipulate load-path in site-start, defaults.el, init.el,
custom.el, or any library loaded from one of those?
No site-start code. I checked for changes to load-path in my Emacs lisp
library and found one place, but it's in my .emacs. Since I already
have an init.el, I don't think this is the problem. (And commenting out
the load-path hack in .emacs didn't make the startup messages go away.)
Do you manipulate load-path in any private package's
auto-autoloads?
Nope.
Does this happen with -vanilla?
No.
I tried clicking on the "Load init files" button after starting with
-vanilla, and I got an error about being unable to load a library from
my "kupfer-env" XEmacs package. In that case, load-path only refers to
the packages from the sumo (/usr/new/share/.../lisp/pkg1,
/usr/new/share/.../lisp/pkg2, etc). No references to anything in my
.xemacs directory.
Hmm. I tried renaming ~/.xemacs/site-packages and
~/.xemacs/xemacs-packages. That gets me an error on a regular
(non-vanilla) startup (as above, because it couldn't find a library in
the kupfer-env package). I put back just
.xemacs/site-packages/lisp/kupfer-env and got a clean startup. I then
put back .xemacs/site-packages/lisp/mail-lib and got the "already
loaded" error. (It's a slightly hacked version of the standard
mail-lib.)
Okay, let's take kupfer-env out of the picture. I renamed
.xemacs/init.el and .emacs, and I deleted
.xemacs/site-packages/lisp/kupfer-env. And I renamed .xemacs/custom.el
for good measure. But on startup I still get the "already loaded" error
message for mail-lib, with both 21.4 and 21.5.
So I think this is pointing at a problem in the package startup code.
mike
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7:21 a.m.
New subject: The future of XEmacs
Do "xemacs -debug-paths" and post the output.
--
Cheers =8-} Mike
Friede, Völkerverständigung und überhaupt blabla
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2:51 p.m.
New subject: auto-autoloads errors (was The future of XEmacs)
Michael Sperber wrote:
Do "xemacs -debug-paths" and post the output.
Here you go:
startup-setup-paths arguments:
inhibit-packages: nil
inhibit-site-lisp: nil
called-early: nil
invocation-directory: "/usr/new/bin/"
invocation-name: "xemacs"
configure-prefix-directory: "/usr/new/"
configure-exec-prefix-directory: nil
emacs-roots:
("/usr/new/")
emacs-data-roots:
("/usr/new/" "/usr/")
user-init-directory: "~/.xemacs/"
configure-package-path: nil
configure-lisp-directory and lisp-directory:
nil
"/usr/new/share/xemacs-21.5-b31/lisp/"
configure-mule-lisp-directory and mule-lisp-directory:
nil
"/usr/new/share/xemacs-21.5-b31/lisp/mule/"
configure-site-directory and site-directory:
nil
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/site-lisp/"
configure-early-package-directories, early-package-hierarchies and
early-package-load-path:
nil
("~/.xemacs/site-packages/" "~/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/")
("/home/kupfer/.xemacs/site-packages/lisp/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/site-packages/lisp/kupfer-env/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/site-packages/lisp/mail-lib/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/site-packages/lisp/mh-e/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/site-packages/lisp/xemacs-devel/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/Sun/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/cc-mode/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ede/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ediff/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/edit-utils/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/gnus/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ilisp/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/net-utils/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/pgg/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/prog-modes/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/speedbar/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/text-modes/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/w3/" "/home/kupfer!
/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/x-symbol/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xemacs-base/")
configure-late-package-directories, late-package-hierarchies and late-package-load-path:
nil
("/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/")
configure-last-package-directories, last-package-hierarchies and last-package-load-path:
nil
nil
load-path:
("/home/kupfer/.xemacs/site-packages/lisp/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/site-packages/lisp/kupfer-env/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/site-packages/lisp/mail-lib/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/site-packages/lisp/mh-e/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/site-packages/lisp/xemacs-devel/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/Sun/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/cc-mode/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ede/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ediff/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/edit-utils/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/gnus/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ilisp/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/net-utils/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/pgg/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/prog-modes/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/speedbar/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/text-modes/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/w3/" "/home/kupfer!
/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/x-symbol/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xemacs-base/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/site-lisp/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/Sun/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ada/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/apel/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/auctex/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/bbdb/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/build/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/c-support/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/calc/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/calendar/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/cc-mode/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/cedet-common/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/clearcase/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/cogre/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/cookie/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/crisp/" "/usr/new/shar!
e/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/debug/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/dictionary/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/dired/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/docbookide/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/easypg/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ecb/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ecrypto/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ede/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/edebug/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ediff/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/edit-utils/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/edt/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/efs/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/eieio/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/elib/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/emerge/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/erc/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/escreen/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/eshell/" "/!
usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ess/" "/usr/new/share/xemacs/!
xemacs-packages/lisp/eterm/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/eudc/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/footnote/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/forms/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/fortran-modes/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/frame-icon/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/fsf-compat/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/games/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/general-docs/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/gnats/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/gnus/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/guided-tour/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/haskell-mode/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/hm--html-menus/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/hyperbole/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ibuffer/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/idlwave/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/igrep/" "/usr/new/share/xem!
acs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ilisp/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ispell/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/jde/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/liece/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/mail-lib/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/mailcrypt/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/mew/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/mh-e/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/mine/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/misc-games/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/mmm-mode/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/net-utils/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ocaml/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/oo-browser/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/os-utils/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/pc/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/pcl-cvs/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/pcomplete/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/pe!
rl-modes/" "/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/pgg/"
"/usr/new/!
share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/prog-modes/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ps-print/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/psgml/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/psgml-dtds/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/python-modes/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/re-builder/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/reftex/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/riece/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/rmail/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ruby-modes/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/sasl/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/scheme/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/semantic/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/sgml/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/sh-script/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/sieve/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/slider/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/sml-mode/"
"/usr/new/share/xemac!
s/xemacs-packages/lisp/sounds-au/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/sounds-wav/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/speedbar/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/strokes/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/supercite/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/texinfo/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/text-modes/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/textools/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/time/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/tm/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/tooltalk/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/tpu/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/tramp/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/vc/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/vc-cc/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/vhdl/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/view-process/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/viper/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/v!
m/" "/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/w3/"
"/usr/new/share/xe!
macs/xemacs-packages/lisp/x-symbol/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xemacs-base/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xemacs-devel/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xetla/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xlib/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xslide/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xslt-process/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xwem/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/zenirc/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs-21.5-b31/lisp/mule/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs-21.5-b31/lisp/")
configure-module-directory and module-directory:
nil
configure-site-module-directory and site-module-directory:
nil
"/usr/new/lib/xemacs/site-modules/"
configure-info-directory, configure-info-path and Info-directory-list:
nil
nil
("/usr/new/share/xemacs-21.5-b31/info/"
"~/.xemacs/site-packages/info/" "~/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/info/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/info/" "/usr/share/info")
configure-exec-directory and exec-directory:
nil
"/usr/new/lib/xemacs-21.5-b31/x86_64-unknown-linux/"
exec-path:
("/sbin/" "/usr/sbin/" "/home/kupfer/bin/"
"/home/kupfer/bin/x86_64/" "/usr/local/bin/" "/usr/bin/mh/"
"/usr/bin/" "/bin/" "/usr/X11R6/bin/"
"~/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/lib-src/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lib-src/"
"/usr/new/lib/xemacs-21.5-b31/x86_64-unknown-linux/")
configure-doc-directory and doc-directory:
nil
"/usr/new/lib/xemacs-21.5-b31/x86_64-unknown-linux/"
configure-data-directory and data-directory:
nil
"/usr/new/share/xemacs-21.5-b31/etc/"
data-directory-list:
("/home/kupfer/.xemacs/site-packages/etc/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/site-packages/etc/ediff/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/site-packages/etc/gnus/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/site-packages/etc/mh-e/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/site-packages/etc/smilies/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/site-packages/etc/sounds/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/auctex/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/e/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/easypg/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/ediff/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/gnus/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/ilisp/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/python-modes/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/smilies/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/sounds/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/vm/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/w3/"
"/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/x-symbol/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/" "/usr/new/sh!
are/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/auctex/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/bbdb/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/e/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/easypg/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/ecb/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/ediff/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/erc/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/ess/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/ezimage/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/frame-icon/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/gnats/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/gnus/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/guided-tour/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/haskell-mode/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/hm--html-menus/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/hyperbole/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/idlwave/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/ilisp/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/jde/" "/usr/ne!
w/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/liece/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/mew/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/mine/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/ps-print/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/psgml/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/psgml-dtds/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/python-modes/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/reftex/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/riece/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/slider/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/smilies/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/sounds/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/time/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/vm/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/w3/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/x-symbol/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/xslt-process/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/xwem/"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/zenirc/" "/usr/n!
ew/share/xemacs-21.5-b31/etc/")
mike
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8:05 p.m.
New subject: auto-autoloads errors
Mike Kupfer <mike.kupfer(a)xemacs.org> writes:
Michael Sperber wrote:
> Do "xemacs -debug-paths" and post the output.
You have two xemacs-devel packages, for example, one in
~/.xemacs/site-packages, and one in
/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xemacs-devel/.
I suggest zapping the one in ~/.xemacs.
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3:50 a.m.
New subject: auto-autoloads errors
Michael Sperber wrote:
You have two xemacs-devel packages, for example, one in
~/.xemacs/site-packages, and one in
/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xemacs-devel/.
Is this recommendation specific to the xemacs-devel package, or is that
a general recommendation for any package?
thanks,
mike
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8:15 a.m.
New subject: auto-autoloads errors
Mike Kupfer <mike.kupfer(a)xemacs.org> writes:
Michael Sperber wrote:
> You have two xemacs-devel packages, for example, one in
> ~/.xemacs/site-packages, and one in
> /usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xemacs-devel/.
Is this recommendation specific to the xemacs-devel package, or is that
a general recommendation for any package?
It's a general recommendation for any package: "site-packages" really is
for packages that aren't part of the regular XEmacs packages distro.
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3:22 p.m.
New subject: auto-autoloads errors
Michael Sperber wrote:
Mike Kupfer <mike.kupfer(a)xemacs.org> writes:
> Michael Sperber wrote:
>
>> You have two xemacs-devel packages, for example, one in
>> ~/.xemacs/site-packages, and one in
>> /usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xemacs-devel/.
>
> Is this recommendation specific to the xemacs-devel package, or is that
> a general recommendation for any package?
It's a general recommendation for any package: "site-packages" really is
for packages that aren't part of the regular XEmacs packages distro.
Okay. I can certainly move my hacked packages from
~/.xemacs/site-packages to ~/.xemacs/xemacs-packages. But that won't
make the auto-autoloads errors go away.
mike
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8:42 p.m.
New subject: auto-autoloads errors
Michael Sperber writes:
It's a general recommendation for any package:
"site-packages" really is
for packages that aren't part of the regular XEmacs packages distro.
Yeah, but I don't understand why we try to load the same package
autoloads twice. People do this all the time (in particular, people
who have a distro-based SUMO installation and want to have an
up-to-date version of a particular package), and we really should
support that and not whine about it. (Of course an explicit request
for shadows such as report-xemacs-bug should list them.)
I guess xemacs-packages hierarchies shadow each other, but
site-packages doesn't shadow xemacs-packages?
A different question: I wonder if it would be possible (ie, with a
reasonable amount of coding effort) and worthwhile to report
whole-package shadows instead of zillions of library shadows for each
shadowed package?
Steve
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7:28 a.m.
New subject: auto-autoloads errors
"Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen(a)xemacs.org> writes:
Michael Sperber writes:
> It's a general recommendation for any package: "site-packages" really
is
> for packages that aren't part of the regular XEmacs packages distro.
Yeah, but I don't understand why we try to load the same package
autoloads twice.
Essentially because the autoloads-loading mechanism doesn't know about
packages. This isn't quite trivial, because by the time the load-path
is done, the system has forgotten about the packages in many respects.
But I agree it should. I'm putting it on my list.
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8:24 a.m.
New subject: auto-autoloads errors
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
Michael Sperber writes:
> It's a general recommendation for any package: "site-packages" really
is
> for packages that aren't part of the regular XEmacs packages distro.
Yeah, but I don't understand why we try to load the same package
autoloads twice. People do this all the time (in particular, people
who have a distro-based SUMO installation and want to have an
up-to-date version of a particular package), and we really should
support that and not whine about it.
Exactly.
A different question: I wonder if it would be possible (ie, with a
reasonable amount of coding effort) and worthwhile to report
whole-package shadows instead of zillions of library shadows for each
shadowed package?
Or what about a specific warning class for the duplicate autoload
messages? We could then just put that in display-warning-supressed-classes.
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9:42 a.m.
New subject: auto-autoloads errors
Didier Verna writes:
Or what about a specific warning class for the duplicate autoload
messages? We could then just put that in display-warning-supressed-classes.
AFAICS this is bad news that needs to be told. Either it's an XEmacs
bug that both xemacs-packages/lisp/foo and site-packages/lisp/foo end
up in load-path, and we should fix it, or it's a user bug that the
same package ends up in xemacs-packages and site-packages, or it's a
community bug where two different packages have the same name (and so
get the same auto-autoloads feature).
In either of the first two cases, you have a distinct and preventable
possibility of incompatible code from different versions getting
loaded. In the last case, a whole package is getting shadowed since
auto-autoloads and custom-load are the way we communicate the
existence of a package to XEmacs at initialization.
I may be missing something, but I think we should avoid suppressing
these warnings if possible.
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11:28 a.m.
New subject: auto-autoloads errors
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
I may be missing something, but I think we should avoid suppressing
these warnings if possible.
I didn't mean that we should supress them by default. But in my case
for instance, I know very well that my Gnus, BBDB, AUC-TeX and whatever
else are shadowing the SUMO installation. Supressing a specific warning
class would make things easier in such cases.
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12:26 p.m.
New subject: auto-autoloads errors
Didier Verna writes:
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> I may be missing something, but I think we should avoid suppressing
> these warnings if possible.
I didn't mean that we should supress them by default. But in my case
for instance, I know very well that my Gnus, BBDB, AUC-TeX and whatever
else are shadowing the SUMO installation. Supressing a specific warning
class would make things easier in such cases.
I don't think there should be any warnings at all in that case. The
question is, is the answer for XEmacs to handle package hierarchies
differently, or is it for users to install them in more appropriate
places? AIUI, the OP occurred because site-package hierarchies don't
shadow xemacs-package hierarchies, so if you have
~/.xemacs/site-packages/lisp/gnus/auto-autoloads.el
/usr/local/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/gnus/auto-autoloads.el
you will get an *error* that is converted to a warning. It is easily
*fixed* by simply
mv ~/.xemacs/{site,xemacs}-packages/lisp/gnus/auto-autoloads.el
so that the user xemacs-packages shadows the system xemacs-packages,
and /usr/local/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/gnus/ doesn't end up
in load-path at all. (AIUI, this is one reason why site-packages and
user hierarchies are better than site-lisp and catchall personal
load-path entries.)
I think it's very natural to put a personal Gnus in
.xemacs/site-packages, so I'm not going to say that's "wrong", but I
also think it's easy enough to teach people to override SUMOs by using
~/.xemacs/xemacs-packages, not ~/.xemacs/site-packages. I don't have
a strong preference personally (but I'll think about it if y'all
decide to leave it up to me ;-).
Steve
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2:56 p.m.
New subject: auto-autoloads errors
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
I think it's very natural to put a personal Gnus in
.xemacs/site-packages, so I'm not going to say that's "wrong", but I
also think it's easy enough to teach people to override SUMOs by using
~/.xemacs/xemacs-packages, not ~/.xemacs/site-packages.
In fact, I didn't even know you could use a ~/.xemacs/site-packages...
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4:04 p.m.
New subject: auto-autoloads errors
Didier Verna writes:
In fact, I didn't even know you could use a
~/.xemacs/site-packages...
Er, where is your personal Gnus, then? And (for completeness) your
system Gnus? I think I'm confused here.
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4:15 p.m.
New subject: auto-autoloads errors
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
Didier Verna writes:
> In fact, I didn't even know you could use a ~/.xemacs/site-packages...
Er, where is your personal Gnus, then? And (for completeness) your
system Gnus? I think I'm confused here.
My SUMO is in /usr/local/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages
My more up-to-date packages are in /usr/local/share/xemacs/site-packages
- this includes Gnus
My own packages are in ~/.xemacs/xemacs-packages
I don't have a ~/.xemacs/site-packages
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5:28 p.m.
New subject: auto-autoloads errors
Didier Verna writes:
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Didier Verna writes:
>
> > In fact, I didn't even know you could use a ~/.xemacs/site-packages...
>
> Er, where is your personal Gnus, then? And (for completeness) your
> system Gnus? I think I'm confused here.
My SUMO is in /usr/local/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages
My more up-to-date packages are in /usr/local/share/xemacs/site-packages
- this includes Gnus
I think this is mildly wrong. The idea of {xemacs,mule,site}-packages
is to support a partition of available packages. Some versions of
XEmacs (ie, --without-mule) will ignore the mule-packages hierarchy.
All versions of PUI should ignore the site-packages hierarchy by
default (since there's no default place to download site-packages
from). You could argue that this is a design bug in the package
system, and I'm not prepared to back up my intuition with logic. But
unless you've got a weapon loaded with high-calibre code, I think Mike
will win the firefight ... ;-)
If you want your updated packages in a system hierarchy, then you IMHO
should have multiple system paths ending in xemacs-packages. (I don't
know for sure if this is supported by ./configure, but I think that
--with-late-packages=/usr/local/share/xemacs:/usr/local/share/xemacs-sumo
should work, and configure PUI to work with hierarchies in .../xemacs.)
Alternatively, you could abuse --with-last-packages for the SUMO.
(Originally --with-last-packages was intended to point to the
top-level of an XEmacs 20 installation in lieu of a SUMO. This is
also one reason why the package system was designed as {etc,lisp}/$PKG
instead of $PKG/{etc,lisp}.)
My own packages are in ~/.xemacs/xemacs-packages
I don't have a ~/.xemacs/site-packages
I would say that "own" packages belong in site-packages.
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7:29 p.m.
New subject: auto-autoloads errors
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
AIUI, the OP occurred because site-package hierarchies don't
shadow xemacs-package hierarchies
I was putting locally-hacked versions of XEmacs packages in
~/.xemacs/site-packages. This was mostly to ensure that PUI didn't
overwrite them, but also to help me distinguish hacked packages from
packages that I had downloaded from xemacs.org. I can put my hacked
packages in ~/.xemacs/xemacs-packages if that's deemed the better way to
manage them.
But putting stuff in ~/.xemacs/xemacs-packages doesn't solve the
load-path-and-warnings issue. I get warnings that correspond to the
packages that I have in ~/.xemacs/xemacs-packages.
mike
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8:32 p.m.
New subject: auto-autoloads errors
On Sun, 19 Aug 2012 11:29:19 -0700
Mike Kupfer <mike.kupfer(a)xemacs.org> wrote:
But putting stuff in ~/.xemacs/xemacs-packages doesn't solve the
load-path-and-warnings issue. I get warnings that correspond to the
packages that I have in ~/.xemacs/xemacs-packages.
It looks like this only works if you don't require the packages from
your init.el file.
Does xemacs -vanilla show no lisp shadows?
Cheers,
Sean
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9:48 p.m.
New subject: auto-autoloads errors
Sean MacLennan wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2012 11:29:19 -0700
Mike Kupfer <mike.kupfer(a)xemacs.org> wrote:
> But putting stuff in ~/.xemacs/xemacs-packages doesn't solve the
> load-path-and-warnings issue. I get warnings that correspond to the
> packages that I have in ~/.xemacs/xemacs-packages.
It looks like this only works if you don't require the packages from
your init.el file.
Could you clarify that? I have 2 load-library calls in my init.el.
They're to private libraries in a personal package, but those private
libraries do require/load some libraries from official XEmacs packages.
Does xemacs -vanilla show no lisp shadows?
(list-load-path-shadows)C-J
"
6 Emacs Lisp load-path shadowings were found"
(find-emacs-lisp-shadows)C-J
("/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/cedet-common/sformat"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/semantic/sformat"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/cedet-common/working"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/semantic/working"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xemacs-base/easy-mmode"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs-21.5-b31/lisp/easy-mmode"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/build/build-report"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs-21.5-b31/lisp/build-report"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/apel/alist"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs-21.5-b31/lisp/alist"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xemacs-base/regexp-opt"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs-21.5-b31/lisp/regexp-opt")
mike
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4:36 a.m.
New subject: [issue] CEDET shadowed library bugs (was: auto-autoloads errors)
Mike Kupfer writes:
Sean MacLennan wrote:
> Does xemacs -vanilla show no lisp shadows?
If we're still talking about the "auto-autoloads already loaded"
error-morphed-to-warning, this isn't going to help figure it out. The
shadow-finding code has to ignore auto-autoloads, because there's one
in *every* package by design. Same for custom-load, except that not
all packages have one of those (most do).
That said, the output is "interesting" (thus the [issue] tag).
(list-load-path-shadows)C-J
"
6 Emacs Lisp load-path shadowings were found"
Use M-x list-load-path-shadows for nicer output.
(find-emacs-lisp-shadows)C-J
("/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/cedet-common/sformat"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/semantic/sformat"
This is a bug. (Verified in my straight-from-hg package source tree.)
I don't know whose offhand. Since libraries are uniquely identified
to `load' by their file names, it is an error to have two libraries in
sibling packages with the same name.
sformat.el has a 0-line diff, but working.el has a 151-line diff! So
this is actually broken (since 2003?):
2003-09-24 David Ponce <david(a)dponce.com>
* sformat.el, working.el: Move to common.
* Makefile: Re-generate.
* Project.ede (tools):
Remove sformat.el and working.el from target sources.
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/cedet-common/working"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/semantic/working"
This too.
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xemacs-base/easy-mmode"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs-21.5-b31/lisp/easy-mmode"
Ben did this, arguing that menu-building is a core function. I see
his point. It can't be added to 21.1 or 21.4 in the same way, thus
the duplication. But it's not a problem, it should be handled by
`package-suppress' (don't ask until you've donned acid-resistent
clothing -- highly corrosive!) IMO, this is a bug in shadow.el, which
should probably participate in the package-suppress protocol (I would
say by warning about it).
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/build/build-report"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs-21.5-b31/lisp/build-report"
Not a core function, but this was done (by Adrian?) so that users
don't have to have packages available to submit a build report. Makes
sense. Ditto on the package-suppress, I think.
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/apel/alist"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs-21.5-b31/lisp/alist"
I think Aidan or Mats did this. APEL's deprecated but these functions
are very useful. Ditto package-suppress.
"/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xemacs-base/regexp-opt"
"/usr/new/share/xemacs-21.5-b31/lisp/regexp-opt")
Ben, again. Ditto package-suppress.
Steve
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2:55 a.m.
New subject: auto-autoloads errors
Sean MacLennan writes:
It looks like this only works if you don't require the packages
from
your init.el file.
?? Requiring a *package* (in this context, at least) means requiring
an auto-autoloads library. Why would you do that?
Requiring a library from the "wrong" version of the package, on the
other hand, should cause nothing but trouble (no warnings, though).
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3:56 a.m.
New subject: auto-autoloads errors
On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 10:55:24 +0900
"Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen(a)xemacs.org> wrote:
Sean MacLennan writes:
> It looks like this only works if you don't require the packages
> from your init.el file.
?? Requiring a *package* (in this context, at least) means requiring
an auto-autoloads library. Why would you do that?
Requiring a library from the "wrong" version of the package, on the
other hand, should cause nothing but trouble (no warnings, though).
I require packages all the time... here is an example from my init.el
file:
(eval-when-compile (require 'cc-mode))
;; This hook is run for all the modes handled by cc-mode
(defun my-c-mode-common-hook ()
(c-set-style "linux")
(c-toggle-hungry-state 1) ;; hungry delete
(setq c-tab-always-indent 'other) ;; real tabs in strings and comments
(setq case-fold-search nil) ;; C is case sensitive
;; Let's try this...
(setq c-enable-xemacs-performance-kludge-p t)
; (easy-menu-add-item nil '("C") "----")
; (easy-menu-add-item nil '("C") ["lxr" lxr-at-point lxr-url])
)
(add-hook 'c-mode-common-hook 'my-c-mode-common-hook)
Is there a better way to do this?
Cheers,
Sean
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5:25 a.m.
New subject: auto-autoloads errors
Sean MacLennan writes:
I require packages all the time... here is an example from my
init.el
file:
There's a difference between requiring a *package* (ie, its
auto-autoloads library) and a *library* in the package. `require' is
not smart enough to load the auto-autoloads library from a package
(which is a good thing, because the base initialization code does that
for you, that's the whole point of auto-autoloads -- ensuring that
entry points of packages are known to XEmacs without you doing any
work). You will discover that there is a library named "cc-mode" in
the package named "cc-mode", which is what your init file loads by
requiring 'cc-mode.
If you want to call a function from cc-mode.el that is *not*
autoloaded, you need to require 'cc-mode. If you want to call a
cc-mode function that is not in cc-mode.el, requiring cc-mode won't
help. You need to require the cc-foo library that contains the
function you want to use.
There is also an auto-autoloads in that package, which is what is
causing the problem (see Subject header).
Steve
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2:51 a.m.
New subject: auto-autoloads errors
Mike Kupfer writes:
But putting stuff in ~/.xemacs/xemacs-packages doesn't solve the
load-path-and-warnings issue. I get warnings that correspond to the
packages that I have in ~/.xemacs/xemacs-packages.
Do you mean after you move the packages from ~/.xemacs/site-packages
to ~/.xemacs/xemacs-packages you *continue* to get warnings? If so, I
admit I am confused about what's going on.
But if these are packages that have "always" been in
~/.xemacs/xemacs-packages? AIUI, you would get errors converted to
warnings, if these are also in a mule-packages or site-packages
hierarchy elsewhere.
Steve
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3:52 a.m.
New subject: auto-autoloads errors
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
Mike Kupfer writes:
> But putting stuff in ~/.xemacs/xemacs-packages doesn't solve the
> load-path-and-warnings issue. I get warnings that correspond to the
> packages that I have in ~/.xemacs/xemacs-packages.
Do you mean after you move the packages from ~/.xemacs/site-packages
to ~/.xemacs/xemacs-packages you *continue* to get warnings?
Yes. Delete from ~/.xemacs/site-packages, unpack the package tarball
into ~/.xemacs/xemacs-packages ("tar xf ..."), restart XEmacs, watch the
messages appear in *Warnings*.
But if these are packages that have "always" been in
~/.xemacs/xemacs-packages? AIUI, you would get errors converted to
warnings, if these are also in a mule-packages or site-packages
hierarchy elsewhere.
AFAIK, the only other copy is in /usr/new/.../xemacs-packages, which I
put there by unpacking the sumo, e.g.,
allegro$ find /usr/new ~/.xemacs -name xemacs-devel -print
/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/man/xemacs-devel
/usr/new/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xemacs-devel
/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/man/xemacs-devel
/home/kupfer/.xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xemacs-devel
allegro$
mike
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5:29 a.m.
New subject: auto-autoloads errors
Mike Kupfer writes:
Yes. Delete from ~/.xemacs/site-packages, unpack the package
tarball
into ~/.xemacs/xemacs-packages ("tar xf ..."), restart XEmacs, watch the
messages appear in *Warnings*.
OK, I'm officially confused. I'll see if I can reproduce. That is
*not* (and I mean *NOT*) supposed to happen.
AFAIK, the only other copy is in /usr/new/.../xemacs-packages, which
I
put there by unpacking the sumo, e.g.,
Oh, I believe you.
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5:17 p.m.
New subject: auto-autoloads errors
I can reproduce in Scientific Linux stock 21.5-b29.
E.g. on startup I see
(1) (packages/warning) Error in Autoload
/usr/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/zenirc/auto-autoloads: Feature zenirc-autoloads
already loaded
Backtrace follows:
signal(error ("Feature zenirc-autoloads already loaded"))
. . .
And 101 more of the same.
I have PUI pointed at .xemacs/xemacs-packages, and the conflict, as
found by list-load-path-shadows, is e.g.
.../.xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/zenirc/zenirc-away hides
/usr/share/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/zenirc/zenirc-away
Um, but of course there are no autoload files under
.xemacs/xemacs-packages. . .
-debug-paths output attached
ht
--
Henry S. Thompson, School of Informatics, University of Edinburgh
10 Crichton Street, Edinburgh EH8 9AB, SCOTLAND -- (44) 131 650-4440
Fax: (44) 131 650-4587, e-mail: ht(a)inf.ed.ac.uk
URL: http://www.ltg.ed.ac.uk/~ht/
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8:02 p.m.
New subject: auto-autoloads errors
Henry S. Thompson writes:
Um, but of course there are no autoload files under
.xemacs/xemacs-packages. . .
Are you sure? I don't see how you can get those errors without an
auto-autoloads.el (or .elc) in each Lisp directory under
~/.xemacs/xemacs-packages somewhere,, since according to the
-debug-paths output, there are only two of each package Lisp directory
in load-path, and one of them is under ~/.xemacs/xemacs-packages.
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1:58 p.m.
New subject: auto-autoloads errors
Stephen J. Turnbull writes:
Henry S. Thompson writes:
> Um, but of course there are no autoload files under
> .xemacs/xemacs-packages. . .
Are you sure?
Ah, oops. There was a symbolic link in the relevant path, so
find -name '*auto*'
didn't show anything, but,
you're right,
find -L -name '*auto*'
finds the shadowers. . .
Sorry for the noise.
ht
--
Henry S. Thompson, School of Informatics, University of Edinburgh
10 Crichton Street, Edinburgh EH8 9AB, SCOTLAND -- (44) 131 650-4440
Fax: (44) 131 650-4587, e-mail: ht(a)inf.ed.ac.uk
URL: http://www.ltg.ed.ac.uk/~ht/
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4:11 a.m.
New subject: email character encoding problem (was auto-autoloads errors)
Friede, Völkerverständigung und überhaupt blabla
By the way, MH-E displayed your signature incorrectly for me. It looks
like it's encoded as UTF-8, but the header says the email is encoded as
Latin-1.
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I don't know if this is a Gnus bug or what...
mike
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5:03 a.m.
New subject: email character encoding problem (was auto-autoloads errors)
Mike Kupfer wrote:
> Friede, Völkerverständigung und überhaupt blabla
By the way, MH-E displayed your signature incorrectly for me. It looks
like it's encoded as UTF-8, but the header says the email is encoded as
Latin-1.
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I don't know if this is a Gnus bug or what...
It looks like the original was, in fact, encoded using Latin-1. Then
for some reason the message body got converted to UTF-8 when my instance
of Gnus saved the message to an MH folder by passing it to rcvstore.
Weird. I suppose I should open a bug on this.
mike
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10 participants
participants (10)
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Didier Verna -
Henry S. Thompson -
Julian Bradfield -
Michael Sperber -
Mike Kupfer -
Sean MacLennan -
Stephen J. Turnbull -
Stephen J. Turnbull -
steven Mitchell -
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