[debian] default emacs

[Gary Foster]

Actually, I don't want to get into a pissing war with anyone (there's
far too much of that going on already) but it's not exactly as if
Ubuntu just copied deb pkgs into a repository, did a s/debian/ubuntu/g
and went on it's merry way.  They are actually putting quite a bit of
effort and work into fixing things and moving forward without getting
mired in pissing wars and political shoving matches.  Warty was pretty
much a repackage and cleanup.  Hoary isn't, though.  Will Ubuntu fall
into the same traps when they get some age behind them?  Honestly, if
history bears out yes they will.  A few years from now Ubuntu may very
well be getting slagged in favor of something else that builds on
their base and takes the baton a bit further.

>From what I've observed, right now Ubuntu people are far less
interested in fixing the blame and instead are focused on fixing
problems (mainly, I suspect, because it's a very young distro and
youth is always less jaded then the mature).  As evidenced by the
discussions on this thread, it doesn't seem to be the priority
(anymore) at Debian.  It's a shame because because it's ultimately
just driving Debian further and further into inconsequence.  At one
time, Debian was *the* distro to use if you were a dev, and the amount
of work and dedication they've put in is phenomenal.  Have other
people leveraged that work?  Hell yes, WELCOME TO OPEN SOURCE.  That's
what the whole freakin' concept is about.

Here's a novel idea.  How about we stop worrying so much about who's
fault it is, who's stupid, who's unwilling to work with who, why GNU
Emacs is so much better to work with, why XEmacs is so much better to
work with, who's a dickhead and who's just trying to get along and...
wait for it... FIX THE PROBLEMS.

This entire thread has been amusing, but only amusing in the same way
watching Bum Wars or anything with Paris Hilton in it is amusing.

The really sad thing is that there are a hell of a lot of really smart
people working on all these projects... and too much time is being
wasted throwing rocks at each other based solely on schismatic
differences.  I am an XEmacs guy.  I've got code in GNU Emacs as well
(not as much) and I've had my nose pushed in by the FSF guys on
occasion too and you know what?  I DO NOT CARE.  I'm just interested
in getting things to work and then getting on with my life.  I'm sick
and damned tired of seeing everyone pull tangentially instead of
together.  STOP picking at each other simply because Debian != Ubuntu,
XEmacs != GNU Emacs, and red != blue.  Jesus Christ, there are
legitimate problems in every single camp, how about we just work on
fixing the problems together instead of wasting time waving our
collective penises.

I'll start the ball rolling... I don't really *want* to get involved
in this because, quite frankly, I don't give a rat's ass about Debian,
I use ubuntu and I install XEmacs from source.  I'm also very busy
learning Cocoa and objective-C programming on my brand new mac mini
and in my spare time I'm trying to finally learn Ruby.  However, I'll
roll up my sleeves and pitch in if someone will point me at something
they'd like changed, fixed, documented or explained.

-- Gary F.

On 5/24/05, David Kastrup <dak at gnu.org> wrote:
> Jérôme Marant <jmarant at free.fr> writes:
> 
> > Quoting Gary Foster <gary.foster at gmail.com>:
> >
> >> Ubuntu has managed to get out 2 releases in what, 6 months?  I
> >> think that right there qualifies it as "different" already.
> >
> > One shall not forget where most of the work done comes from.
> 
> Yup.  Ubuntu basically is Debian with a release strategy.  I don't see
> Ubuntu doing something like forking off Debian's Emacs/XEmacs
> structure.
> 
> Solving those problems will ultimately have to happen at Debian.
> Ubuntu might speed up the process until users get to see the results
> in a shrink-wrapped form.  But the work starts at Debian.
> 
> --
> David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum
> 
>