[Novalug] How to find hardware device access point
Bryan J. Smith
b.j.smith at ieee.org
Thu Oct 29 03:19:31 EDT 2009
From: James Ewing Cottrell 3rd <JECottrell3 at comcast.net>
> Thank God! The LONG version is enough to drive anyone insane!
But it gives the history. People find my stuff in Google searches.
> I'd just as soon use Flash Drives anyway.
And they have their negatives/limitations as well.
> Still slower than DVD+R, right?
No. You're thinking DVD+RW v. DVD-RW (or DVD-RAM for that matter).
For DVD-R, CAV can be used, so it's just as fast/slow as DVD+R at the same "speed."
For DVD+RW v. DVD-RW, yes, DVD+RW (CAV) is faster than DVD-RW (CLV).
A lot of DVD+R advocates apply the advantages of DVD+RW over DVD-RW.
But they don't apply to DVD-R. DVD-R is far more compatible.
Just like DVD-RW should have never come into being (Pioneer marketing),
DVD+R should have never come into being (Sony/Philips "backtrack" on -R).
I'm sorry, but a 40% increase in performance doesn't justify the 5 errors per
disc average, let alone longevity issues. Again, -RW should have never been
created, but the popularity of DVD+RW first gen drives caused Pioneer to rethink
not creating one (and leaving it to Matshushita-Panasonic DVD-RAM).
The problem with DVD+RW and -RW is that it doesn't solve the error rates that
were quickly identified with CD-RW. That's what PD-CD did, which evolved into
DVD-RAM -- based on a decade of MO experience by Mat-Pana since the
> Is that a problem?
Yes, it resulted in numerous lawsuits as Sony/Philips promised firmware upgrades
to DVD-R compatibility. HP was hit hard not only on the 100i, but the 200i.
Sony/Philip firmware also cannot do character (byte-by-byte) recording for DVD-R
in their 3G drives, which results in not only the most compatible, but the longest
media lifespan. If I want a backup to last without errors, I write to DVD-R in DaO
(or at least SaO).
> Aren't most of the compatibility issues dead? I mean, how many old readers
> are still out there? These $30 boxes don't last forever.
There are still longevity and other issues, even if compatibility is solved.
In a nutshell, DVD-R will always be more compatible, even with newer players.
Especially as the media wears.
DVD+R looks like DVD+RW, and there are going to be all sorts of issues,
including the initial error rate for that matter.
> Yup! The PLUS format beats the MINUS on speed. And needs to be formatted
> less often.
Yes, for DVD+RW v. DVD-RW. DVD-RW should have never existed.
But don't confuse DVD+RW v. DVD-RW with DVD+R v. DVD-R.
I don't deny that DVD-RW is not ideal. But DVD+RW is not ideal versus
DVD-R either, and DVD+R _is_ DVD+RW.
> Who actually USES -RAM?
It has been the optical archiving standard. -RW was never supposed to exist.
DVD-RAM lasts 30+ years. I'm currently at 12 years for some discs, 0 errors. ;)
It wasn't used in the consumer realm nearly as much though. But it was never
designed for such. When Sony was still trying to recover from their 3GB, Japan-
only DVD-R+W format, Matsushita-Panasonic had sold 7 figures of video devices
There are a lot of recording electronics and archiving systems that were DVD-RAM
from 1997-2005. It was Linux compatible from Day 1, whereas 3rd parties had to
hack Sony/Philips DVD+RW support. DVD-RAM was huge on Linux storage systems
in the late '90s, where it was the sole option.
Today (2005+) 4.7GB/side isn't enough for DVD-RAM to continue. But the backward
compatibility is still warranted, and the media longevity still has few equals. Doing
a software verify after write just isn't the same with DVD+RW.
Ultimately home consumers drove the issue on price, and that's when Pioneer
moved to introduced DVD-RW. It was a half-baked alternative. They should have
just left it to DVD-RAM for those that wanted it.
DVD+RW is not a long-term archiving media. Marketing on performance caused
people to go nuts for it. Lack of promised DVD-R support led to lawsuits. HP and
Microsoft, among others, had serious issues with licensing DVD+RW. I've watched
Sony/Philips off-shoots over the years, and their about "marketing" and are not
very honest on design.
I also still can't stand Sony/Philips for introducing CAV CD-RW (which I call CD+RW)
which caused all sorts of issues when CLV CD-RW was the standard. Squeezing out
another 40% on the outer tracks isn't worth destroying media -- let alone some CD-ROM
drives could be destroyed by reading them (yes).
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