[Novalug] [Ma-linux] [FOSE] Starting the discussion

[Joseph Brinkley]

Free coffee and beer are the best to be honest.

On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 8:30 AM, greg pryzby <gpryzby at gmail.com> wrote:

> James Ewing Cottrell 3rd wrote:
> > You seem to Miss The Point. Ethics and Logic Give No Quarter. And
> > Action is either Right/Logical or Wrong/Illogical.
>
> You opinion and it is shared by many. However, I stand by, Free means
> free to do what I want. BSD is free and GPL is not. It restricts what
> can be done.
>
> We can discuss what 'is better' for community, software, world,
> whatever. However the word free to me means that there is no
> restrictions. GPL places restrictions.
>
> I am not judging if the restrictions are right or wrong, good or bad,
> they just are.
>
> > If you believe that Software Hoarding is Wrong, then allowing others
> > to take your code and distribute it as a Closed Product is Wrong.
> >
> > An analogy might help here. Using my argument above, the GPL is
> > somewhat like a gun manufacturer requiring that the purchaser (SAY
> > that they will...) not use the gun for illegal purposes, while the BSD
> > license is like what we have now.
> >
> > Finally, the REAL moment of Freedom is choosing whether to release
> > something under GPL or not.
> >
> > Actually, it doesn't bother me that the GPL "restricts freedom" -- it
> > prohibits people from doing things which *I* consider uncool.
> >
> > That is the Price of using the software. Given that people are trying
> > to restrict ownership (I bought it, I can do what I want) anyway with
> > Licensing (no you can't, you can run it only on CPU Serial 364521. On
> > Tuesday. Or if it's Dark.), it seems like a small price to pay.
> >
> > JIM
> >
> > greg pryzby wrote:
> >> GPL is ONE license and there is an argument that some serious
> >> developers I respect say isn't truly free because it requires certain
> >> things.  BSD is a free license because once the code has left your
> >> hands, anyone can take it and do what they want. That is true
> >> freedom. It is the freedom to let someone do what they want with it
> >> and not force them to leave it open. They can take it and not make
> >> the code available and sell it also, without a change (iirc).
> >>
> >> I DO NOT tell people what to do or what is right, as Varol said, that
> >> is the decision of the developer(s).
> >>
> >> I remember a heated exchange when the developer told people to take
> >> his code, only release binaries and sell it-- that is fine by him. He
> >> wrote the code for himself and shared it because he wanted to. He
> >> could care less if others liked/used it.
> >>
> >> Personally, that is giving true freedom.
> >>
> >> Gregory Maxwell wrote:
> >>> On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 6:47 PM, Varol Okan
> >>> <varokan at movingsatellites.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Serge, remember when people used to have train sets to play with.
> >>>> No one
> >>>> really did it to instill freedom in other people, but the motive
> >>>> most of
> >>>> the time centered around hobby, fun and relaxation.
> >>>>
> >>>> As the author of an GPLed SW I did it not mainly to give people free
> >>>> speech source code, I did it to follow my interests and talents.
> >>>>
> >>>> Don't get me wrong, I am all for FLOSS, however as a user of FLOSS
> >>>> SW I
> >>>> am interested mostly in usability. So yes, I do uses closed source
> >>>> codecs/driver if I have to.
> >>>>
> >>>> So when you say every one in the FLOSS community did it ONLY to
> >>>> support
> >>>> freedom, I think you can count me out. I did it mainly to solve a
> >>>> personal need, follow my hobby and enjoy, relax while doing some
> >>>> productive things for every one to use.
> >>>>
> >>> [snip]
> >>>
> >>> If you really do not care about other people's freedom at all, why use
> >>> the GPL?  Why not use some mild shareware license? Then you get to
> >>> scratch your itch *and* you might get paid a little beer money too?
> >>>
> >>> Maybe your answer was so that you could integrate some pre-existing
> >>> GPLed software and you needed a compatible license. But if thats the
> >>> case then you could trace the chain back and find someone who cares
> >>> about freedom at the other end.
> >>>
> >>> Or perhaps you wanted to maximize the chances that someone else will
> >>> chip in?  But there you're taking a bet that they'll care about
> >>> freedom even if you do not.    ... Or perhaps you wanted to be
> >>> included in a GNU/Linux distribution that only(/mostly) ships Free
> >>> Software.
> >>>
> >>> I think that pretty much any way you cut it,  you pretty much can't
> >>> make a rational explanation for the existence of GPLed software
> >>> without explaining that some people are trying to promote a particular
> >>> kind of freedom for computer users. We don't need to claim that all
> >>> GPL users have this purpose, but some very clearly do… and unless it's
> >>> mentioned the whole system seems a little less sensible and a little
> >>> more suspicious.
> >>>
> >>> Some people call this promotion 'political', but I think thats just
> >>> really a label we slap on pragmatic efforts to achieve practical goals
> >>> which we don't share ourselves.  :)
> >>>
> >>> [snip]
> >>>
> >>>> Now that said I am grateful FLOSS and people defending it. I am just
> >>>> opposed to the radical view of black vs white, good vs evil, FLOSS vs
> >>>> closed SW.
> >>>>
> >>> Most people that I've met who promote free software are also not fond
> >>> of BLACK/WHITE style distinctions.
> >>>
> >>> For example, virtually all of us are using CPUs whos designs are
> >>> secret, proprietary, patented, etc but the CPU, coded in a high level
> >>> design language, is no less software by virtue of being etched into
> >>> silicon, by at least one rational school of thought.  Basically it's
> >>> impossible for someone with an absolute black/white position to avoid
> >>> contradiction and hypocrisy.
> >>>
> >>> When people draw shades of grey in very different positions from
> >>> ourselves we sometimes mistake that with a rigid black and white
> >>> phenomena (the same as the "they all look alike" view on people of
> >>> other races from people not accustomed to dealing with them).  But if
> >>> we listen carefully with tolerance and and open mind, we can usually
> >>> find the nuance in the position of those we do not agree with.
>
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-- 


--Joseph Brinkley
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