APPROVE COMMIT web Index: About/ChangeLog =================================================================== RCS file: /pack/xemacscvs/XEmacs/xemacsweb/About/ChangeLog,v retrieving revision 1.219 diff -u -r1.219 ChangeLog --- About/ChangeLog 26 Nov 2007 19:02:49 -0000 1.219 +++ About/ChangeLog 20 Feb 2008 04:59:45 -0000 ＠＠ -0,0 +1,6 ＠＠ +2008-02-19 Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen(a)xemacs.org&gt; + + * XEmacsVsGNUemacs.content: Update Emacs mailing address to + emacs-devel. Update URLs for XEmacs development pages. Lots of + text changes. + Index: About/XEmacsVsGNUemacs.content =================================================================== RCS file: /pack/xemacscvs/XEmacs/xemacsweb/About/XEmacsVsGNUemacs.content,v retrieving revision 1.9 diff -u -r1.9 XEmacsVsGNUemacs.content --- About/XEmacsVsGNUemacs.content 13 Jan 2003 21:35:26 -0000 1.9 +++ About/XEmacsVsGNUemacs.content 20 Feb 2008 04:59:45 -0000 ＠＠ -7,6 +7,20 ＠＠ <h1>XEmacs vs. GNU Emacs</h1> <p> + <em> + Much of this page was written over a decade ago, by somebody + other than the current editor, possibly Ben Wing. The previous + major revision occurred on January 1, 2001, by me. GNU Emacs + has improved a fair amount, but the irreconcilable differences + between the projects continue, with no resolution in sight. I + have little interest in learning enough technical details about + GNU Emacs 22 to accurately revise it, so you should take + everything in square brackets with a grain of salt. -- stephen, + February 19, 2008 + </em> + </p> + + <p> There are currently irreconcilable differences in the views about technical, programming, design and organizational matters between Richard Stallman (RMS) and the XEmacs development team which provide ＠＠ -18,7 +32,7 ＠＠ avoid posting to the newsgroups, because of the very heated flamewars that often result. Mail your questions to <a href="mailto:xemacs-beta＠xemacs.org">xemacs-beta＠xemacs.org</a> - and <a href="mailto:bug-gnu-emacs＠prep.ai.mit.edu">bug-gnu-emacs＠prep.ai.mit.edu</a>. + and <a href="mailto:emacs-devel＠gnu.og">emacs-devel＠gnu.org</a>. </p> <p> ＠＠ -35,83 +49,81 ＠＠ <p> This section is now quite dated. Much of it refers to GNU Emacs - 19 and XEmacs 20. However, the differences described persist in + 19 and XEmacs 20. However, many of the differences described persist in the most recent versions of both Emacsen in some form. </p> <h3>User-Visible Editing Features</h3> <p> - In XEmacs, images of arbitrary size can be embedded in a buffer. - (Soon available in GNU Emacs 21.) - </p> - - <p> - In XEmacs, variable width fonts work. (Soon available in GNU - Emacs 21.) - </p> - - <p> - The height of a line is the height of the tallest font on that - line, instead of all lines having the same height. (Soon - available in GNU Emacs 21.) + As of GNU Emacs 22, XEmacs's GUI features (images, variable pitch + fonts, widgets) are reported by some GNU Emacs users to be more + efficient and usable than GNU Emacs's. </p> <p> - <!-- #### Is this obsolete? --> - XEmacs provides support for ToolTalk on systems that have it. - <!-- #### Possibly I should drop mention of DnD? --> - Experimental support for drag-and-drop protocols is provided from - XEmacs 21. - </p> - - <p> - XEmacs can ask questions using popup dialog boxes. Any command - executed from a menu will ask yes/no questions with dialog boxes, - while commands executed via the keyboard will use the minibuffer. + <!-- #### Is this obsolete? --> XEmacs provides support for + ToolTalk on systems that have it. <!-- #### Possibly I should + drop mention of DnD? --> Experimental support for drag-and-drop + protocols is provided from XEmacs 21. [Not available in GNU Emacs + 21. Status in GNU Emacs 22 unknown.] </p> <p> XEmacs has a built-in toolbar. Four toolbars can actually be configured simultaneously: top, bottom, left, and right toolbars. + [A single toolbar was added to GNU Emacs 21.] </p> + <h3>General Platform Support</h3> + <p> - XEmacs has vertical and horizontal scrollbars. Unlike in GNU - Emacs 19 (which provides a primitive form of vertical scrollbar), - these are true toolkit scrollbars. A look-alike Motif scrollbar - is provided for those who don't have Motif. (Even for those who - do, the look-alike may be preferable as it is faster.) + Starting with XEmacs 21.4, if your platform supports dynamically + loadable modules, so does XEmacs. RMS continues to refuse to + allow this facility in GNU Emacs, because it makes it easier to + distribute modules in violation of the GPL. </p> - <h3>General Platform Support</h3> - <p> If you're running on a machine with audio hardware, you can specify sound files for XEmacs to play instead of the default X beep. See the documentation of the function load-sound-file and the variable sound-alist. XEmacs also supports the network sound - protocols NAS and EsounD. + protocols NAS and EsounD. [Not available in GNU Emacs 22.] </p> <p> XEmacs 21 supports database protocols with LISP bindings, - currently including Berkeley DB, LDAP, and PostgreSQL (21.2 only). + currently including Berkeley DB, LDAP, and PostgreSQL (from 21.4). + [Not available in GNU Emacs 22.] </p> <p> - XEmacs 20 and 21 support the Canna, Wnn, and SJ3 Japanese input + XEmacs 21 supports the Canna, Wnn, and SJ3 Japanese input method servers directly, as well as through the X Input Method - (XIM) protocol. GNU Emacs 20 supports only the XIM protocol. + (XIM) protocol. GNU Emacs 22 supports only the XIM protocol, + although there are now pure Lisp implementations of Canna and Wnn. Both Emacsen support the Quail family of input methods (implemented in LISP) for many languages. </p> + <p> + As of XEmacs 21.4, although XEmacs supports preloaded Lisp using + "unexec", it is considered obsolete. XEmacs 21.4 uses a much more + portable technique to "dump" and "preload" Lisp. GNU Emacs 22 + still uses unexec. + </p> + + <p> + XEmacs 21 supports multiple frames on TTYs. GNU Emacs is + scheduled to get that feature in version 23. + </p> + <h3>Packaged LISP Libraries</h3> <p> Many more packages are provided standard with XEmacs than with GNU - Emacs 19 or 20. + Emacs 22. </p> <p> ＠＠ -128,14 +140,14 ＠＠ be converted to integers (and many integers can be converted to characters), but characters are not integers. GNU Emacs 19, XEmacs 19, Mule 2.3 (an extensive patch to GNU Emacs 18.55 and - 19.x), and GNU Emacs 20 (incorporating Mule 3 and later Mule 4) - represent them as integers. + 19.x), and GNU Emacs 20--22 (incorporating Mule 3 and later Mule 4) + represent them as integers. [GNU Emacs 23 may bet a character type.] </p> <p> From XEmacs 20 on, the buffer is treated as an array of characters, and the representation of buffer text is not exposed - to LISP. The GNU Emacs 20 functions like buffer-as-multibyte are + to LISP. The GNU Emacs 20--22 functions like buffer-as-multibyte are not supported. </p> ＠＠ -175,29 +187,31 ＠＠ <h3>Window System Programming Interface</h3> <p> - XEmacs uses the MIT "Xt" toolkit instead of raw Xlib calls, which - makes it be a more well-behaved X citizen (and also improves - portability). A result of this is that it is possible to include - other Xt "Widgets" in the XEmacs window. Also, XEmacs understands - the standard Xt command-line arguments. - </p> - - <p> XEmacs supports Motif applications, generic Xt (e.g. Athena) applications, and raw Xlib applications. An XEmacs variant which supports GTK+ is available (integration as an option in the XEmacs mainline is planned for XEmacs 22), although code to take - advantage of the support is as yet scarce. + advantage of the support is as yet scarce. XEmacs does not + support raw Xlib. GNU Emacs 22 supports Xlib, GTK+, and MS + Windows, with 3rd party or experimental support for Carbon and + Cocoa on the Mac. </p> <p> - An XEmacs frame can be placed within an "external client widget" - managed by another application. This allows an application to use - an XEmacs frame as its text pane rather than the standard Text - widget that is provided with Motif or Athena. + XEmacs provides an interface called the "native widget API" for + adding new kinds of widgets (currently including progress bars, tab + controls, and buttons) which can be attached to extents using the + image API. GNU Emacs does not. + </p> + + <p> + As a compile-time option, an XEmacs frame can be placed within an + "external client widget" managed by another application. This + allows an application to use an XEmacs frame as its text pane + rather than the standard Text widget that is provided with Motif + or Athena. </p> - <!-- #### This is new! --> <h3>Community Participation</h3> <p> ＠＠ -205,33 +219,44 ＠＠ simple. Mail to <a href="mailto:xemacs-beta＠xemacs.org">XEmacs Developers &amp;lt;xemacs-beta(a)xemacs.org&amp;gt;&lt;/a&gt;, and you're in! (If you <em>want</em> to be, of course. You're also welcome to just - post development-related questions and bug reports.) The GNU - Emacs development team and internal mailing lists are - <em>still</em> by invitation only. + post development-related questions and bug reports.) As of + February 2008, XEmacs has a + <a href="http://tracker.xemacs.org/XEmacs/its/">modern bug tracker</a>. + The GNU Emacs development lists were opened up as of the version + 21 development cycle, and a bug tracking system is under discussion. </p> <p> - The "bleeding edge" of mainline XEmacs development is available by - <a href="<!-- _GP_ relPath(qq{Develop/cvsaccess.html}) - -->">anonymous CVS</a> as are some subsidiary branches (check out - the <em>xemacs-gtk</em> module for the latest in GUI features!) + XEmacs's bundled packages and the stable XEmacs 21.4 line are kept + in a <a href="http://www.xemacs.org/Develop/cvsaccess.html">CVS + repository</a>, while starting in December 2007, the mainline + development was moved to a + <a href="http://www.xemacs.org/Develop/hgaccess.html">Mercurial + repository</a>. GNU Emacs continues to use CVS although 3rd + parties provide bzr, GNU Arch, Darcs, and git repositories, and a + move to bzr is under discussion. </p> <p> - Development and maintenance of Lisp libraries is separated from + In XEmacs, + development and maintenance of Lisp libraries is separated from the core editor development at a fairly low level. This provides better modularization and a better division of responsibility between external library maintainers and the XEmacs core development team. Even for packages the size of Gnus, XEmacs users normally have access to a pre-built version within a few weeks of a major release, and minor updates often within days. + RMS once again vetoed provision of a package system for Emacs in + December 2007. </p> <p> + In XEmacs, CVS commit authority is broadly dispersed. Recognized maintainers of LISP libraries who are willing to maintain XEmacs packaged versions automatically qualify for CVS accounts for their - packages. + packages. Something similar is true for GNU Emacs at the time of + writing. </p> <h2>The FSF Point of View</h2> ＠＠ -339,7 +364,11 ＠＠ international treaty, and is automatically awarded to the author as soon as a work is published. Both projects use the GNU General Public License to protect their work while providing it freely to - the community. + the community. (GNU Emacs moved to GPL version 3 almost as soon + as it was available; XEmacs is moving in that direction as well. + Of course since XEmacs is licensed under "GPL version 2 or later," + individuals who wish to redistribute XEmacs under version 3 can do + so. Thus this is not a real difference.) </p> <p> ＠＠ -508,7 +537,14 ＠＠ <h3>Author's Disclaimer</h3> <p> - I disagree strongly with the FSF position in many respects. + I disagree strongly with the FSF position in many respects. In + fact it is my personal opinion that in interactions with XEmacs + developers RMS has been more interested in recruiting them to do + work he wants done on Emacs, than in acquiring XEmacs code with + far less effort than it would take to develop it from scratch. + </p> + + <p> However, I have tried to present the facts of the legal issue as accurately and objectively as possible, and have some hope I succeeded. The interpretation of why XEmacs developers as a group ＠＠ -535,12 +571,6 ＠＠ There are plenty of venues where you can read endless flames on these issues. With little effort, you can probably find some of mine. This isn't one. So big deal. - </p> - - <p> - Oh, yeah. I'm sorry I get so wrapped up in the politics. I'll - try to spend more time on the technical details in the next - round. Maybe even find out what's happened in Emacs 20 and 21! </p> <address> _______________________________________________ XEmacs-Patches mailing list XEmacs-Patches(a)xemacs.org http://calypso.tux.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xemacs-patches