mike, first off, there's a doc problem: `efs-auto-save' is a variable declared in Lisp. -- loaded from "efs" Value: t Documentation: *If 1, allows efs files to be auto-saved. If 0, suppresses auto-saving of efs files. Don't use any other value. also, when i load up /ben＠gwyn.tux.org:/etc/mail/xemacs, then hit `f' on aliases-xemacs, make a change, and save, i get these messages: CWD'ing to aliases-xemacs... CWD'ing to aliases-xemacs...8k (42.1 KB/s) CWD'ing to aliases-xemacs...9k (26.5 KB/s) CWD'ing to aliases-xemacs...10k (24.9 KB/s) CWD'ing to aliases-xemacs...11k (21.5 KB/s) CWD'ing to aliases-xemacs...13k (24.0 KB/s) CWD'ing to aliases-xemacs...14k (15.5 KB/s) CWD'ing to aliases-xemacs...22k (8.4 KB/s) CWD'ing to aliases-xemacs...25k (5.8 KB/s) CWD'ing to aliases-xemacs...26k (5.8 KB/s) CWD'ing to aliases-xemacs...done Listing aliases-xemacs... Listing aliases-xemacs...done why is it claiming to be CWD'ing to a file? [it saves fine, though] third, efs has problems with ftp.microsoft.com: /ftp.microsoft.com:/ use f to go to kbhelp, hit f on ~ftpsvc~.ckm, you get a buffer named "®
PÔï". start over, use f to go to misc; f works on the file cbcp.txt, but most other .txt files e.g. disclaim.txt give you the error File not found and directory write-protected and the culprit: open ftp.microsoft.com Connected to ftp.microsoft.com. 220 CPMSFTFTPA05 Microsoft FTP Service (Version 5.0). quote user "anonymous" 331 Anonymous access allowed, send identity (e-mail name) as password. quote pass Turtle Power! 230-This is FTP.MICROSOFT.COM Please see the dirmap.txt 230-file for more information. 230 Anonymous user logged in. hash Hash mark printing on (1024 bytes/hash mark). quote pwd 257 "/" is current directory. quote syst 215 Windows_NT version 5.0 quote cwd / 250 CWD command successful. ls "-al" C:/DOCUME~1/BENWIN~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/efsaQAymx 200 PORT command successful. 150 Opening ASCII mode data connection for /bin/ls. # 226 Transfer complete. quote site idle 500 'SITE idle': command not understood quote cwd /misc/ 250 CWD command successful. ls "-al" C:/DOCUME~1/BENWIN~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/efsaQAymx 200 PORT command successful. 150 Opening ASCII mode data connection for /bin/ls. ### 226 Transfer complete. quote rnfr /misc/disclaim.txt 550 /misc/disclaim.txt: Access is denied. type image 200 Type set to I. get /misc/cbcp.txt C:/DOCUME~1/BENWIN~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/efsaQAymx.txt 200 PORT command successful. 150 Opening BINARY mode data connection for /misc/cbcp.txt(15749 bytes). ############### 226 Transfer complete. 15749 bytes received in 0.35 seconds (44997 bytes/s) quote cwd /kbhelp/ 250 CWD command successful. ls "-al" C:/DOCUME~1/BENWIN~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/efsbQAymx 200 PORT command successful. 150 Opening ASCII mode data connection for /bin/ls. # 226 Transfer complete. "Michael Sperber [Mr. Preprocessor]" wrote: -- ben I'm sometimes slow in getting around to reading my mail, so if you want to reach me faster, call 520-661-6661. See http://www.666.com/ben/chronic-pain/ for the hell I've been through.

never mind, it's a windows problem -- same results by calling expand-file-name on "~ftpsvc~.ckm". btw the log: open ftp.microsoft.com Connected to ftp.microsoft.com. 220 cpmsftftpa03 Microsoft FTP Service (Version 5.0). quote user "anonymous" 331 Anonymous access allowed, send identity (e-mail name) as password. quote pass Turtle Power! 230-This is FTP.MICROSOFT.COM. Please see the 230-dirmap.txt for more information. 230 Anonymous user logged in. hash Hash mark printing on (1024 bytes/hash mark). quote pwd 257 "/" is current directory. quote syst 215 Windows_NT version 5.0 quote cwd / 250 CWD command successful. ls "-al" C:/DOCUME~1/BENWIN~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/efsaVAG6Q 200 PORT command successful. 150 Opening ASCII mode data connection for /bin/ls. # 226 Transfer complete. quote site idle 500 'SITE idle': command not understood quote cwd /KBHelp/ 250 CWD command successful. ls "-al" C:/DOCUME~1/BENWIN~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/efsaVAG6Q 200 PORT command successful. 150 Opening ASCII mode data connection for /bin/ls. # 226 Transfer complete. "Michael Sperber [Mr. Preprocessor]" wrote: -- ben I'm sometimes slow in getting around to reading my mail, so if you want to reach me faster, call 520-661-6661. See http://www.666.com/ben/chronic-pain/ for the hell I've been through.

Ben> mike, are there any plans to support URL-style syntax for Ben> EFS? The last time this was suggested, Stallman trashed it, because it would make it too easy to implement ssh: and scp: protocols etc transparently, and at that time they were too unfree to be allowed to work and play pleasantly with Emacs. :-( I don't know if there would still be resistence from the GNU camp, but there was. Be that as it may.... Mike, check me on this, but I think this is a _bad_ idea. The reason is that EFS installs itself on the file I/O handler hooks and thus transparently emulates local file operation semantics for remote files. All of the problems that we currently have with EFS will seem tiny if this is implemented, because EFS will not have 15 years of error- handling expertise embedded in the code for handling non-FTP protocols. Embedding the capability in EFS is just asking for scads of bug reports. I think it would be preferable to create a new package for doing this. We just don't want to muck with EFS at the moment. It's too critical and too stable. BTW, I have a design and half an implementation for alternative transports for package-get. Alternative transports will use URL syntax, and the EFS transport will also use URL syntax by preference (of course that will be converted to EFS's /user＠remotehost:/path syntax internally). Besides EFS, I will implement a sample transport based on url-retrieve from w3. I may do another one based on Kai Grossjohan's tramp, too (but that would just be proof of concept, since typical users won't have ssh access to tux). I think that's a better way to go for the general case too. Mike? BTW, as long as you're here ... given an arbitrary function called by existing package-get code, is there an easy way to check whether it is EFS-infested and needs to be wrapped to use "alternative transports"? -- University of Tsukuba Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences Tel/fax: +81 (298) 53-5091 _________________ _________________ _________________ _________________ What are those straight lines for? "XEmacs rules."

Ben> mike, are there any plans to support URL-style syntax for Ben> EFS? S> I think it would be preferable to create a new package for doing S> this. We just don't want to muck with EFS at the moment. It's too S> critical and too stable. I've been using Grigni's find-file-at-point (ffap.el), ftp://ftp.mathcs.emory.edu/pub/mic/emacs/ffap-1.9-gen.el (also part of xemacs-base, I believe). Granted, it's quite old (created circa 1993), and may be considered obsolete by now, but it still works for me in conjunction with EFS and doing the translations I frequently come across. -- -mb-

ms> In fact, W3 handles exactly the translation needed. All ms> somebody'd have to do is hack up a file-name handler which ms> recognizes URLs and hands them off to W3. W3 is close, but it needs reorganization before this could be convenient and robust. At the moment I find I need to require 'w3 as well as 'url in order to use the url-retrieve facility. I think we also want to implement the HEAD method (or whatever it's called) in order to get the file's "attributes" as much as possible without downloading it. I don't think w3 does yet. This needs to be cached since HTTP is in principle stateless == connection per transaction (although w3 may implement persistent connections, I don't know if servers are required to do so even in HTTP 1.1). I don't know how much of this w3 does, and I'm pretty sure it is not done at the url library level. Finally, w3 is in general in sad repair; I don't think Bill is doing much with it at the moment (he posted a cry for help a few months back, and that's about it). I know that T. V. Raman has expressed interest in packaging Emacspeak as an XEmacs package, but he is also concerned about the maintainership of w3. Bill? -- University of Tsukuba Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences Tel/fax: +81 (298) 53-5091 _________________ _________________ _________________ _________________ What are those straight lines for? "XEmacs rules."

"Stephen J. Turnbull" <turnbull(a)sk.tsukuba.ac.jp&gt; writes: I tried this ages ago, but the file-name-handler stuff was in its infancy and there were just too many places it was utterly fubared. Hopefully things are better now. The code in the old URL package was just commented out. If you are feeling adventurous, you can use the code out of cvs and just do (url-setup-file-name-handlers) in your .emacs. And may the gods have mercy on your soul. This should be fixed in the CVS versions, but w3 is still pretty broken. I concentrated on the URL subsystem, and then ran out of time. It is pretty close, and if people want to help, PLEASE do so. :) Shocked, SHOCKED I am that you would think something this simple wasn't implemented ages ago. :) url-file-attributes has worked for years. It tries to do the right thing for HTTP, but some things just aren't possible, but it is fairly useful now and then. The caching is done at the URL level, but for things like this we would just be doing HEADs, which is equivalent to what would do most of the time anyway, checking the consistency of the cache. HTTP/1.1 does require persistent connections and chunked encoding support, both on the client and the server. The URL code in CVS supports this, but there are still some issues with it. I'm considering taking a week off to work on it, but the next few weeks are insane around here with birthdays, anniversaries, weddings, and all sorts of other crap. My main goal for the next month is to get it usable in Emacs 21 (Dave Love is working on ripping out the need for mule-sysdp, bless him) and figuring out the last few things in the URL library that need to be finished (not many). W3 effectively needs a major overhaul and rewrite. The currently display code is very close to ideal in terms of theory. The execution is pretty lacking. Basic idea is to do everything off of a stylesheet and the parsed representation of the document. Where the document comes from, we shouldn't care. XML? Sure. HTML? Sure, what the hell. RTF? Join the party. At least in theory. I want to use savannah.gnu.org to try and drag more people into actively developing - I just haven't had the time, and the web has so thoroughly disgusted me for the last few years, I haven't had the heart even when I had the time. I desperately need help (in general, but on Emacs/W3 specifically :) - there is just too much to do to get w3 back up to par. I can see maintaining the URL library myself, as that is something much more useful than w3 in its current state. But w3 needs more hands. -bp -- Ceterum censeo vi esse delendam.

Ben> mike, first off, there's a doc problem: Ben> `efs-auto-save' is a variable declared in Lisp. Ben> -- loaded from "efs" Ben> Value: t The documentation is right. Why did you set it to t? -- Cheers =8-} Mike Friede, Völkerverständigung und überhaupt blabla

Mike> I've been having trouble with this on a machine running the Mike> native build of XEmacs (from the current CVS trunk) on Mike> Windows NT 4.0 using the cygwin ftp client. When I try to Mike> open a file on an FTP server (I've tried several and it Mike> doesn't seem to matter which server) the file is truncated Mike> at a random location a few thousand bytes into the file. If Mike> you look at the ftp log everything seems to be ok, but efs Mike> doesn't seem to wait for the file to be transfered before Mike> using the result. I've tried to debug this a bit, but Mike> haven't learned very much. Has anyone else seen problems Mike> like this? Hi Mikes, I just tried this again with Mike latest EFS testing version. I still cannot use cygwin ftp.exe from a native Windows XEmacs 21.1.14: open ftp.somebody.de Connected to www.somebody.de. 220 ProFTPD 1.2.0 Server (SpaceNet GmbH) [www.somebody.de] quote user "adm" 331 Password required for adm. quote pass Turtle Power! 230 User adm logged in. hash Hash mark printing on (1024 bytes/hash mark). quote cwd /www/html-data/fussball/ 250 CWD command successful. ls "-al" C:/DOCUME~1/AICHNE~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/efsaXAjtJ 200 PORT command successful. 150 Opening ASCII mode data connection for file list. 226 Transfer complete. type image 200 Type set to I. put C:\Users\AichnerAd\WWW\gs\fussball\hirschgarten.html /www/html-data/fussball/hirschgarten.html /usr/bin/ftp: local: C:UsersAichnerAdWWWgsfussballhirschgarten.html: No such file or directory That's why I have moved my cygwin ftp.exe out of the way and use C:\WinNT\system32\ftp.exe instead. Best regards, Adrian Mike> I'm connected via an ISDN line so ftp transfers are not too Mike> fast. This might have something to do with it. I'll try it Mike> on other machines with faster net connections and see if Mike> that affects things. If I can provide any more information Mike> let me know. Mike> Mike Alexander <mailto:mta＠arbortext.com> Mike> Arbortext, Inc. +1-734-997-0200 Mike> --On Friday, May 18, 2001 8:37 AM +0200 "Michael Sperber [Mr. Preprocessor]" <sperber(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de&gt; wrote: -- Adrian Aichner mailto:adrian＠xemacs.org http://www.xemacs.org/

Adrian, ... ... My patch in message <3B09B5A4.CEB137E7(a)tardis.ed.ac.uk&gt; should fix that particular problem. I see a different problem using Windows ftp.exe with efs package 1.22 on Windows 98se. Are you using efs package 1.22 or 1.25? Jonathan. -- Jonathan Harris | jhar(a)tardis.ed.ac.uk London, England | Jonathan.Harris(a)symbian.com

Jonathan> ^ Jonathan> Oops, I meant 1.25 ---------------------------------------------------+ I am using (emacs-version) "XEmacs 21.1 (patch 14) \"Cuyahoga Valley\" [Lucid] (i386-pc-win32) of Mon May 21 2001 on D5DC120J" on ver Microsoft Windows 2000 [Version 5.00.2195] with SP1 and, Ah! efs 1.23 I have now upgraded to efs 1.25. cygwin ftp still doesn't work with 21.1.14. I'll try 21.5-b1 next. Best regards, Adrian Jonathan> Jonathan. Jonathan> -- Jonathan> Jonathan Harris | jhar(a)tardis.ed.ac.uk Jonathan> London, England | Jonathan.Harris(a)symbian.com -- Adrian Aichner mailto:adrian＠xemacs.org http://www.xemacs.org/

|--==> "MS" == Michael Sperber <sperber(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de&gt; writes: MS> Steve Youngs has just released EFS package version 1.25. This is an MS> experimental prerelease of EFS available as MS> /ftp.xemacs.org:/pub/xemacs/beta/experimental/packages/efs-1.25-pkg.tar.gz MS> In order to turn this into an official package release, I urgently MS> need your help in testing it. Hi Mike. All in all it works fine for me connecting to various FTP servers (including Win servers). There are, however, a couple of things that worry me. 1) EFS no longer shows the progress of a download (percentage complete in the minibuffer). Can this be re-instated please? 2) With (setq efs-use-passive-mode t) you can't download packages. I'm not sure if this was the case with the previous EFS because I've only just recently changed my firewall which smoked this out. If either of these two items can be overcome by setting certain EFS variables, please let me know. -- |---<Steve Youngs>---------------<GnuPG KeyID: 9E7E2820>---| | XEmacs - It's not just an editor. | | It's a way of life. | |------------------------------------&lt;youngs(a)xemacs.org&gt;---|

I've had a couple of weird problems with the latest EFS and downloading packages. I'm still trying to figure out what happened... One problem I had is that I had to download the packages twice to get it to install. The first time, it seems that it was actually downloading the package but EFS returned a completion code to the package proggy which then said that the CRC's didn't match. Of course they didn't, it wasn't done downloading. :) So, I'm not sure if it's EFS or the package system. -- Jeff Stuart jstuart(a)neo.rr.com

I've also sent the text of this message as M-x efs-report-bug. |--==> "MS" == Michael Sperber <sperber(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de&gt; writes: SY> 1) EFS no longer shows the progress of a download (percentage SY> complete in the minibuffer). Can this be re-instated please? MS> I don't see this, and I didn't consciously change this. Are you MS> sure? If yes, could you describe a concrete example? Yes. With EFS 1.25 & then EFS 1.22 I took these steps: 1) C-x C-f /ftp.xemacs.org:/ RET 2) copied the file 'filelist.errs' to ~/temp/ ,----[ C-h l (EFS 1.25) ] | Recent minibuffer messages (most recent first): | | Copy [-p]: 1 file. | Copy [-p]: 1 of 1 | Loading efs-cp-p...done | Loading efs-cp-p... | Copying filelist.errs to /home/steve/temp/...done | Copying filelist.errs to /home/steve/temp/... | Reading directory /anonymous＠ftp.xemacs.org:/...done | Reading directory /anonymous＠ftp.xemacs.org:/... | Loading env...done | Loading env... `---- ,----[ C-h l (EFS 1.22) ] | Recent minibuffer messages (most recent first): | | Copy [-p]: 1 file. | Copy [-p]: 1 of 1 | Loading efs-cp-p...done | Loading efs-cp-p... | Copying filelist.errs to /home/steve/temp/...done | Copying filelist.errs to /home/steve/temp/...100% (4.2 KB/s) | Copying filelist.errs to /home/steve/temp/...99% (4.3 KB/s) | | [...] | | Copying filelist.errs to /home/steve/temp/...3% (5.1 KB/s) | Copying filelist.errs to /home/steve/temp/...2% (4.3 KB/s) | Copying filelist.errs to /home/steve/temp/...1% (2.5 KB/s) | Copying filelist.errs to /home/steve/temp/...0% (1.1 KB/s) | Copying filelist.errs to /home/steve/temp/... | Reading directory /anonymous＠ftp.xemacs.org:/...done | Reading directory /anonymous＠ftp.xemacs.org:/... | Loading env...done | Loading env... `---- ,----[ ftp buffer (EFS 1.25) ] | 230 Anonymous access granted, restrictions apply. | ftp> hash | Hash mark printing on (1024 bytes/hash mark). | ftp> passive | Passive mode on. | ftp> quote pwd | 257 "/" is current directory. | ftp> quote syst | 215 UNIX Type: L8 | ftp> quote cwd / | 250 CWD command successful. | ftp> ls "-al" /tmp/steve/efsaLD_dH | 227 Entering Passive Mode (207,96,122,8,134,11). | 150 Opening ASCII mode data connection for file list | 226 Transfer complete. | ftp> quote site idle | 500 'SITE IDLE' not understood. | ftp> type image | 200 Type set to I. | ftp> get /filelist.errs /home/steve/temp/filelist.errs | 227 Entering Passive Mode (207,96,122,8,134,40). | quote mdtm /filelist.errs | 150 Opening BINARY mode data connection for /filelist.errs (783857 bytes). | 226 Transfer complete. | 783857 bytes received in 145 secs (5.3 Kbytes/sec) | ftp> 213 20010604043316 | ftp> `---- ,----[ ftp buffer (EFS 1.22) ] | 230 Anonymous access granted, restrictions apply. | ftp> hash | Hash mark printing on (1024 bytes/hash mark). | ftp> passive | Passive mode on. | ftp> quote pwd | 257 "/" is current directory. | ftp> quote syst | 215 UNIX Type: L8 | quote cwd / | ftp> 250 CWD command successful. | ftp> ls "-al" /tmp/steve/efsaQDlrW | 227 Entering Passive Mode (207,96,122,8,136,99). | 150 Opening ASCII mode data connection for file list | 226 Transfer complete. | ftp> quote site idle | 500 'SITE IDLE' not understood. | ftp> type image | 200 Type set to I. | ftp> get /filelist.errs /home/steve/temp/filelist.errs | 227 Entering Passive Mode (207,96,122,8,136,111). | 150 Opening BINARY mode data connection for /filelist.errs (783857 bytes). | 226 Transfer complete. | 783857 bytes received in 166 secs (4.6 Kbytes/sec) | quote mdtm /filelist.errs | ftp> 213 20010604043316 | ftp> `---- And a couple of other things: 1) EFS 1.25 needs 'efs-use-passive-mode' set to 't' even when passive mode isn't needed. 2) EFS 1.25 can't download packages with 'efs-use-passive-mode' set to 't'. Which kinda conflicts with 1). EFS 1.22 doesn't suffer from either of these problems. -- |---<Steve Youngs>---------------<GnuPG KeyID: 9E7E2820>---| | XEmacs - It's not just an editor. | | It's a way of life. | |------------------------------------&lt;youngs(a)xemacs.org&gt;---|

SY> I've also sent the text of this message as M-x efs-report-bug. SY> |--==> "MS" == Michael Sperber <sperber(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de&gt; writes: >>SY> 1) EFS no longer shows the progress of a download (percentage SY> complete in the minibuffer). Can this be re-instated please? SY> 1) EFS 1.25 needs 'efs-use-passive-mode' set to 't' even when SY> passive mode isn't needed. SY> 2) EFS 1.25 can't download packages with SY> 'efs-use-passive-mode' set to 't'. Which kinda conflicts SY> with 1). I'm pretty sure all of these are related. Could you trace `efs-cmd-ok-p' live (not via Edebug, but rather via something like `trace-function-background' or a simple call to `message'), do one of these transfers (preferably download a package), and send me the results? -- Cheers =8-} Mike Friede, Völkerverständigung und überhaupt blabla

For all that I use EFS for (IE just downloading packages... Sorry, I have other FTP proggies I use. And I do all my devel on samba mounted drives SO... :)) it works WONDERFULLY now! THANK YOU! -- Jeff Stuart jstuart(a)neo.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: xemacs-beta-admin(a)xemacs.org [mailto:xemacs-beta-admin＠xemacs.org]On Behalf Of Michael Sperber [Mr. Preprocessor] Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 7:39 AM To: Thomas Nichols Cc: Mats Lidell; xemacs-beta(a)xemacs.org; xemacs-nt(a)xemacs.org Subject: Re: Help test EFS As most of you have probably seen in Steve Young's announcement, there's a new prerelease of EFS in ftp://ftp.xemacs.org/pub/xemacs/beta/experimental/packages/efs-1.26-pkg.t... It should work substantially better than the previous prerelease. I'd like to thank you all for the excellent feedback I got on this version. I was originally very pessimistic about the process, but I'm glad to have been proven wrong. Anyhow, I'd much appreciate further feedback on the new prerelease. If that works out, I hope to release a new actual release pretty soon. -- Cheers =8-} Mike Friede, Völkerverständigung und überhaupt blabla