"Golubev I. N." <gin(a)mo.msk.ru&gt; writes: As of 5.8, Gnus gained full native MIME comprehension. TM conflicts with Gnus 5.8 and later. No. Gnus can create and interpret pretty much any MIME packaging you wish. It uses an internal system known as "mml" ("MIME markup language", I believe), providing a reasonable way of introducing additional and alternative parts, including multiparts. During composition in a *Messge* buffer, see the Attachments menubar pulldown, and read the Emacs-MIME info area (*Info* -> Emacs-MIME or, in very recent alpha Gnus ["Oort"], info://Emacs-MIME/ [that quasi-URL can be clicked directly in recent Oort Gnus]). Note also the keymap under `C-c C-m'.

That historical discourse about emacs MUAs is very interesting, but how do I MIME-encode headers and create attachments in that same gnus? Its own '.texi' does not say much about it. All I have is MML menus. What if I am on tty? How do I control charset of encoded words in headers? It appears that current version of gnus lacks documentation badly.

Your message is really helpful wrt to basic keybindings and how to start. But I think that such a startup should be (easily) available to everybody through conventional emacs techniques. One should not have to post questions or read faq. All that end user `sees' is gnus. So gnus documentation should be a point to start and figure out everything one needs. When it describes `gnus-group-mail' and friends, it should refer to `message' manual. Currently `gnus.info' does not mention `gnus-msg-mail' at all, and functions' documentation does not state explicitly where to read about mail composition. I am sure that gnus doesn't, but user does. With menubar it is easier to understand what MML does. MML minor mode description (which is the only thing universally available on any device) is quite terse and does not state explicitly that it is stuff for composing MIME messages described in this-and-this `.info'. Hope that it describes what to do without MULE or when same text may be sent in different charsets, and required charset may change. I think that the statement still holds. There are apparently not enough cross-references, and learning it is not as easy as it could be. Even now I observe some surprises in message mode. It appears to use `sendmail' stuff, and does that in a strange way. One has to change default `sendmail-program' value, not buffer-local one, to have it affect sending in `message' mode. So one cannot (easily) reuse his `sendmail-program' stuff. And there is no way back, that is, you cannot stick to `tm' either, since it is also considerably hosed. So mail editing in xemacs becomes quite uncomfortable.

Simon> gnus-msg-mail is a XEmacs thing, it should be documented in Simon> the XEmacs manual. Gnus does not use the function as far Simon> as I know. This is becoming a FAQ. Anyway, are you sure? It comes from gnus-msg, which is part of the Gnus distribution and authored by larsi and Umeda-san. The docstring says Start editing a mail message to be sent. Like `message-mail', but with Gnus paraphernalia, particularly the Gcc: header for archiving purposes. Simon> (A new mail-lib release would be a good thing, the mail-lib Simon> in CVS solves alot of problems and add several new Simon> features.) Sigh. I'll get on this. -- Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp University of Tsukuba Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN Don't ask how you can "do" free software business; ask what your business can "do for" free software.

Simon> I'm having trouble committing things currently, and I'd Simon> like to commit a one-liner I sent to xemacs-patches several Simon> weeks ago first -- I sent a mail to the cvs maintainer so Simon> hopefully it will be fixed soon. Er, I'm the XEmacs CVS maintainer now.... OK, I've fixed that alias. (gomen'nasai, Jareth-san. taihen gomeiwaku wo kaketeshimaimasita (^^;;;) What's the problem? Are you aware that cvs.xemacs.org is no more? We're planning to move to SunSITE.dk as soon as we can get some security issues straightened out. In the meantime, CVS changes are done using your &quot;jas(a)barbar.josefsson.org&quot; SSH public key, using CVS_RSH=/usr/bin/ssh CVSROOT=:ext:xemacs＠tanko.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp:/usr/CVSroot or whatever is appropriate at your system. Checkouts and updates can be done anonymously CVSROOT=:pserver:cvs＠sunsite.dk:/pack/anoncvs The cvs login password is "cvs". The canonical reference for this stuff is http://www.xemacs.org/Develop/cvsaccess.html, but it doesn't describe the temporary server at "tanko". Note that due to my university's brain-damaged firewall, the only way you can check service is via ssh -v, which will hang after announcing the connection (you don't have shell access; it automatically starts the CVS server, which is waiting for CVS :ext: client-server protocol). No ping, traceroute, etc, etc, due to firewall. -- Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp University of Tsukuba Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN Don't ask how you can "do" free software business; ask what your business can "do for" free software.

Simon> Ah, the cvsaccess.html page says to use Simon> &quot;martinb(a)tanko.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp&quot;. Thanks for the report. Fixed in workspace now. Simon> Ok, now ssh -v works, but commit doesn't: Simon> cvs server: failed to create lock directory for Simon> `/usr/CVSroot/xemacs-packages/xemacs-packages/mail-lib' Your Repository file doesn't jibe with the structure of the repository now, I guess. I suspect that the contents of your mail-lib/CVS/Root file is the single line :ext:martinb＠cvs.xemacs.org:/usr/CVSroot (which doesn't matter because CVSROOT overrides, but doesn't change it; you can change to the CVSROOT I gave by hand with no problem, though and then you won't have to set CVSROOT), and your mail-lib/CVS/Repository file is the single line xemacs-packages/xemacs-packages/mail-lib Change that to XEmacs/packages/xemacs-packages/mail-lib. It's also possible that you're not committing from the working directory itself. If not, cd'ing there might help. If this kind of manipulation fails, you'll have to check out again. If so, I'm sorry for the inconvenience. -- Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp University of Tsukuba Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN Don't ask how you can "do" free software business; ask what your business can "do for" free software.

Simon> "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen(a)xemacs.org&gt; writes: Simon> This was the problem, thanks. But changing this makes Simon> anonymous CVS stop working. The anonymous CVS server Simon> doesn't seem to be tightly synced with tanko either, so I Hi Simon, please report specific problems you are seeing. We need this to find the cause. SunSITE.dk is synced daily. It might be though, that packages don't get synced correctly. They don't appear in the rsync log. I'll have a look. Best regards, Adrian Simon> guess I'll only use tanko for now. -- Adrian Aichner mailto:adrian＠xemacs.org http://www.xemacs.org/

Simon> Adrian.Aichner(a)t-online.de (Adrian Aichner) writes: Simon> cvs.sunsite.dk and tanko.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp doesn't have the Simon> same "Repository" path. The following illustrates the That's right. I'll try to get a symlink created on SunSITE.dk to fix this. But that's not a sync problem. Can you give an example of what you called "doesn't seem to be tightly synced with tanko either"? Simon> problem, it is not enough to change the cvs root with -d, Simon> you need to edit CVS/Repository as well, as Stephen Simon> described. Simon> anon cvs ok, but ssh not ok: Simon> [jas＠dhcp128 mail-lib]$ cat CVS/Root Simon> :pserver:cvs＠sunsite.dk:/pack/anoncvs Simon> [jas＠dhcp128 mail-lib]$ cat CVS/Repository Simon> xemacs-packages/xemacs-packages/mail-lib Simon> [jas＠dhcp128 mail-lib]$ cvs upd Simon> ? ChangeLog.jas Simon> ? status Simon> ? todo Simon> cvs server: Updating . Simon> M mail-extr.el Simon> M rmailout.el Simon> [jas＠dhcp128 mail-lib]$ cvs -w -z3 -d :ext:xemacs＠tanko.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp:/usr/CVSroot upd Simon> ? ChangeLog.jas Simon> ? status Simon> ? todo Simon> cvs server: Updating . Simon> cvs server: cannot open directory /usr/CVSroot/xemacs-packages/xemacs-packages/mail-lib: No such file or directory Simon> cvs server: skipping directory Simon> [jas＠dhcp128 mail-lib]$ Simon> ssh cvs ok, but anon cvs not ok: Simon> [jas＠dhcp128 mail-lib]$ cat CVS/Root Simon> :ext:xemacs＠tanko.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp:/usr/CVSroot Simon> [jas＠dhcp128 mail-lib]$ cat CVS/Repository Simon> XEmacs/packages/xemacs-packages/mail-lib Simon> [jas＠dhcp128 mail-lib]$ cvs upd Simon> ? ChangeLog.jas Simon> ? status Simon> ? todo Simon> cvs server: Updating . Simon> M mail-extr.el Simon> M rmailout.el Simon> [jas＠dhcp128 mail-lib]$ cvs -d :pserver:cvs＠sunsite.dk:/pack/anoncvs upd Simon> ? ChangeLog.jas Simon> ? status Simon> ? todo Simon> cvs server: Updating . Simon> cvs server: cannot open directory /pack/anoncvs/XEmacs/packages/xemacs-packages/mail-lib: No such file or directory Simon> cvs server: skipping directory Simon> [jas＠dhcp128 mail-lib]$ -- Adrian Aichner mailto:adrian＠xemacs.org http://www.xemacs.org/

Simon> Adrian.Aichner(a)t-online.de (Adrian Aichner) writes: Simon> cvs.sunsite.dk and tanko.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp doesn't have the Simon> same "Repository" path. The following illustrates the Simon> Thanks! I'm afraid this will have to wait. It's not as simple as it looked. Simon> If I use tanko as CVS Root, I get the patch I committed Simon> today, if I use sunsite I don't get them. But you said Isn't this the issue with the relative paths in .../CVS/Repository? Later, Adrian Simon> that they are synchronized every day, and that's probably Simon> OK by me (except for mail-lib though..). -- Adrian Aichner mailto:adrian＠xemacs.org http://www.xemacs.org/

Simon> Adrian.Aichner(a)t-online.de (Adrian Aichner) writes: Simon> If I use tanko as CVS Root, I get the patch I committed Simon> today, if I use sunsite I don't get them. But you said Simon> No, I don't think so. If I change Root+Repository to be Simon> correct for sunsite, sunsite still doesn't contain the Simon> latest changes from tanko. This is not a problem, a 1 day Hi Simon! I did a manual rsync earlier today on SunSITE.dk and your mail-lib checkin of today did get synced over to SunSITE.dk! bash-2.03$ cd /pack/xemacscvs/packages bash-2.03$ find . -mtime -1 -ls 30351 1 drwxrwsr-x 2 cvs xemacs 1024 Nov 8 20:29 ./xemacs-packages/mail-lib 32338 42 -r--r--r-- 1 adrian xemacs 42185 Nov 8 18:23 ./xemacs-packages/mail-lib/smtpmail.el,v 32337 40 -r--r--r-- 1 adrian xemacs 40803 Nov 8 18:23 ./xemacs-packages/mail-lib/ChangeLog,v bash-2.03$ Again: Please state exactly a few files which are not in sync NOW (i.e. showing up as locally modified because the repository is behind). Thanks in advance, Adrian Simon> delay is OK. -- Adrian Aichner mailto:adrian＠xemacs.org http://www.xemacs.org/

Simon> On 8 Nov 2001, Adrian Aichner wrote: Simon> Thanks. Simon> Only ChangeLog and smtpmail.el in mail-lib, but you fixed Simon> this. Great! This confirms rsync to work right for xemacs packages too. Simon> (The problem is that the files don't show up as locally Simon> modified, they are reverted to the version on the server. Simon> So if I commit something on tanko, then go to sunsite, my Simon> changes are reverted until sunsite gets them. As I said, I Simon> can live with this.) OK, I'll concentrate on getting this fixed for good. This won't happen over this weekend though. Best regards, Adrian -- Adrian Aichner mailto:adrian＠xemacs.org http://www.xemacs.org/

APA> I'll do a quick update now. Already done and committed. ;-) -- Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp University of Tsukuba Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN Don't ask how you can "do" free software business; ask what your business can "do for" free software.